[mike777]

000002, on Aug 10 2005, 09:32 PM, said:

Dealer: West 
Vul: Both 
Scoring: MP 

♠ KJxxx            ♠ QT9x 
♥ 10xx             ♥ QJx 
♦ QJ              ♦ KT9x 
♣ KQx              ♣ Ax 

NOW, east can open " normally", but  4S  DOWN
another example:

♠ KJxxx            ♠ QT9x 
♥ 10xx             ♥ QJx 
♦ QJ              ♦AKT9 
♣ KQx              ♣ Jx

tender 4s too
for why?  many junk there.
But,if u are west,would u like to seek game? or leap to ?

You need to keep in mind you are playing light opening bids...then ONE open light and TWO raise conservative. You are just going to confuse yourself if you agree to open light and then do not!

First off I open the west hand.
Assuming west opens then east with hand one can make a limit raise showing 4 spades and west can pass, easy. 1s=3c=7-10 with 4 trumps, 1s=3d=limit raise. Many get fancy and reverse these two bids.
Hand 2 is much harder, either force to game or make limit raise, my guess is I would get to 4s down.

If you make me pass the west hand.
In both your cases playing light openers you cannot force to game. You are playing light openings.
Unfortunately you cannot make a short suit game.
Unfortunately you cannot make a long suit game try, you need a top honor in hearts to do that.

That leaves with you with bidding 3S game try.
Now the east hand will wonder why the heck are you not making a short suit or long suit game try, ergo you must have some balanced junk.

At least whatever east chooses they are making an informed choice.

[han]

Mike, perhaps I should have bid 2NT instead, that would aks opener to describe his hand (3S would show minimum with 4 trumps, no shortness).

[Double !]

Hannie, on Aug 10 2005, 10:27 PM, said:

Mike, perhaps I should have bid 2NT instead, that would aks opener to describe his hand (3S would show minimum with 4 trumps, no shortness).

Not sure how this would've helped. The issue wasn't distribution. It was location of honors or, as Rubens terms it, "in and out evaluation". Perhaps the whole situation and meanings of bid would be different had the major involved been hearts instead of spades. But, since your style was to not open the west hand, IMO, east really should pass 1S to let you know that his/her overall strength likely could not make game opposite a passed hand, and then support spades after the opps balance. IMO, this is a situation where posession of the master suit affects how you handle the hand. You will know that P has 3-card support when he/she passes 1S, so you'll know whether or not it's right to compete further should the opps balance. (Without 3S, P should have a good reason for opening 3rd seat with a 1-bid IMO).

[000002]

1、 East can open bid, the best way is 1♦
2、 East can raise 2♠,ought to raise for competive(baffle opps 7-fit/8-fit choice)
3、 West must notice his worse doubleton suit and his pd's doubleton suit♣ which WALLAK emphasize it in the supperaccept after transfer.
4、 ERICK indicates: east bid badly but correctly, west bid wrong but good enough, because no GOOD way to try.


I agree : nobody over bid. Only the game-try way, bad--worse--worst.

[luke warm]

i might have missed it, but i don't recall anyone saying anything about west's pass... that's an easy 1nt opening for me, after which:

1nt : 2c (invitational puppet)
2s : pass (opener is required to bid 3s if he'd accept an invitation w/ a 5M or 3nt without, so responder can safely pass now)

[POJC]

Gave this a second look.
1. Easts hand is subopening strength when calculating Zar points. (only 25 when giving 1 for having spades).

2. I can only construct one hand that would not open (ZAR=26) and still raise 2S to 4S and have less than 50% of making. That's KJxxx 10xx KJ Kxx. This is inself both a strong reason for east to pass 1S (when we know we have subopening stength) and a good way to see the power of ZAR when evaluating if you should open.

3. I agree that west should bid 2NT to get more knowledge of easts hand if east could open that crappy hand in third position. Still even a proper opening hand in east with two more jacks in Hs and Clubs with not let you win 4S. It would be hard not to reach 4S when west shows 4 card spade support with 3S.

All in all i would still it's bad luck, but east should consider passing 1S. This will be hard to do when playing bridge though...