[kgr]

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding:
(3D)-3S-(P)-4S-All pass
Play:
♦9 to Ace and ♦ ruff.
West now returned ♣K for the Ace in South. I cleared the ♠, played ♥Q and ♥A and all ♠'s. When East did only follow 1 ♥ it was clear that a squeeze would work for an extra trick.
On the last ♠ West was thinking a bit. To make it more fun I quickly claimed with comment "squeeze".
This was easy after reading Ben's articles on Squeezes. If you did not yet read them you really should! At least these easy squeezes are automatic now. I will have to read it some more to make the double, compound,... squeezes at the table.
... Waiting for the last chapters on Ben's Squeeze blog.

[Walddk]

Congratulations on having executed an automatic squeeze. Please accept my apologies in advance (I certainly don't mean to spoil the fun), but Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion is hardly the forum for squeezes.

I am convinced that this has never been Ben's intention.

You may agree or disagree, but I claim that the vast majority of beginners and intermediates don't master the basics, so what is the point of introducing squeezes before they do? I have said this a few times in earlier posts:

It's like trying to run before you can even crawl. It doesn't work in real life, and it's no different at the bridge table.

Roland

[inquiry]

Good play, good card reading.

To roland, yes I did mean to put the squeeze play in the Beginner and Intermediate fourm. Too advanced for beginners? Yes, I agree. To advanced for Intermediates? I disagree. Showng to intermediates provides them tools to help them become better to players. An intermediate should be at the "basic stage" where counting hands is becoming a normal process.

One could argue, for example, that such a thread is wrong for the advanced and expert thread because experts know all this as too obvious.

My appoach was to post the "how to" in the beginnner and intermediate thread, and just problem hands for the most part in the expert and advanced thread.

[Walddk]

inquiry, on Aug 7 2005, 03:38 PM, said:

An intermediate should be at the "basic stage" where counting hands is becoming a normal process.

I'm glad you use the word "should". I can assure you that this is not the case. I have been teaching bridge players at all levels for more than 30 years, so I "should" know what I am talking about.

Maybe the level of intermediate players is higher in USA, but I doubt it. I have seen enough of real life as well as online bridge to determine that this is not so. Let me put it as clearly as I possible can: squeezes are not for beginners/intermediates!

Nothing is too obvious, but something is too difficult.

Roland

[inquiry]

Walddk, on Aug 7 2005, 09:47 AM, said:

Let me put it as clearly as I possible can: squeezes are not for beginners/intermediates!

Let me put this as clearly as possible...

as long as good players are not willing to share the basic knowledge of a simple plays like automatic squeezes, squeezes will never be possible for intermediates.... However, I have had several messages from different BIL members who intentionally made a squeeze (usually automatic simple ones) after reading my thread. But occassionally doubles like this one.

And intermediates who find this too difficult or confusing, can leave it for the time being and come back to it later, when they are "more advanced".

Information wants to be free.. i am just trying to share it. I hope in a simple way that makes it easy to follow... but maybe not. but so be it. I have no doubt that some advanced and expert players will benefit as well. For example Malucy couldn't see the simplicity and obviousness of a particular compound squeeze and cleary mike is an expert I (see http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...findpost&p=726) Also, when I posted on squeezes and pattern recognition in the advanced/expert group http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=42485 I didn't get too much feedback other than "what is a squeeze" from an expert.

But my thread in the beginner/intermediate section has generated a lot of "thanks you" and look what i found messages. So comparing the two results of the post in the the advanced/expert group and beginner/intermediate group, i am sure it is in the right place.

[epeeist]

For what it may be worth, Alan Truscott appears to think squeezes are appropriate for intermediates.

In his book "Intermediate Bridge in Three Weeks: A 21-Day Guide to Bridge Mastery" squeezes are first mentioned in passing on day 2, and covered in much more detail on day 16. Day 16 covers automatic and positional squeezes, and there's even an example of a one-suit squeeze (rare).

[mike777]

epeeist, on Aug 7 2005, 12:22 PM, said:

For what it may be worth, Alan Truscott appears to think squeezes are appropriate for intermediates.

In his book "Intermediate Bridge in Three Weeks: A 21-Day Guide to Bridge Mastery" squeezes are first mentioned in passing on day 2, and covered in much more detail on day 16. Day 16 covers automatic and positional squeezes, and there's even an example of a one-suit squeeze (rare).

Keep in mind I have heard many players say there are 100 expert players in the world. Everyone else is intermediate. I think that is who Alan is aiming his books at.

[Robertn]

I agree with Ben that squeezes are appropriate for intermediates and much appreciate the time he put into preparing his articles. Several of the BIL teachers have given lessons on squeezes and some set homework based on the lessons

I think there is a difference between learning to recognise the basic positions and being able to execute them reliably in actual play. I've understood the basic mechanics for ages, and usually been able to solve 'make 6NT by a squeeze' type problems, but am only just getting the hang of when to recognise a squeeze as the best option when I'm declarer. If we learn the basics as intermediates, and see the opportunities we've missed when reviewing hands after a session, we'll be all the more deadly once the penny does drop!

On the actual hand here, isn't this a simple positional squeeze (as played anyway) rather than an automatic or double squeeze? I'm assuming kgr had K9♥ and J♣ in dummy when he claimed, so the squeeze would have failed if East had Q♣?

Robert

[Trumpace]

I agree with Ben. I don't think there is any harm putting (simple) squeeze hands in the intermediate forum. I don't see any point putting this in the advanced forum. It will not help the advanced/experts learn anything new, but it will help the intermediates if they take the effort to study it.

[kgr]

Robertn, on Aug 7 2005, 10:34 PM, said:

On the actual hand here, isn't this a simple positional squeeze (as played anyway) rather than an automatic or double squeeze? I'm assuming kgr had K9♥ and J♣ in dummy when he claimed, so the squeeze would have failed if East had Q♣?

That is right. I played it as a simple positional squeeze. Is there a double squeeze?

I think simple squeezes are appropriate for intemediates. At least they should know the requirements for a basic squeeze. Then they see on this hand that they have only one looser left and maybe something good happens. This isn't too difficult.
Double squeezes, compound squeezes,... are probably rather for experts.

[coyot]

Maybe it would be worth saying aloud what your ideas about the bridge skill scales are.

We have the Novice - Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced - Expert - World Class style on BBO.

Here it is shrunk to beg+ind - adv+exp.

What should be the learning curve of bridge?
My perception is and always was:

Novice: a few weeks into the game. The concepts of tricks, bidding, play and scoring covered

Beginner: first 6-12 months (assuming 1-2 evenings a week). Begins with a largely natural bidding system, Stayman, Transfers and Blackwood being high-tech tools. Unless he started with a good book, uses Blackwood with a void . Unless he memorized his bidding system, he is quite often unsure whether a particular non-jump bid would be forcing or not. 8-ever and 9-never are the core rules of his play.

Intermediate: Learns that bidding is not about points, but about tricks. Moves to a little more sophisticated bidding system - two-suited overcalls, inverted minors, conventional major raises. Discovers that there are sometimes better ways to the contract than a simple finesse. Starts hating opponents for leading trumps as he likes crossruffs. May occasionally realize a squeeze, but hardly KNOW it This phase IMHO lasts 1-2 years. Learns LOTT slowly.

Advanced - Feels at home within his bidding system, adds a few gadgets to it. Elimination and endplay become his daily bread. He sees opportunities for dummy reversals, really understands LOTT, can reach most of slams safely. Reads narrow-subject books - and I think that this is the right time to start learning squeezes. Advanced bridge can last for the rest of your life (I doubt I will ever feel like an expert player...)

I would agree with Roland that to move to a higher stage, you should have "mastered" the stage below - and, things I imagine to be intermediate bridge are, for me at least, far below squeezes in complexity.

Another way to look at it. How would you expect "intermediate player" to fare in tourneys? I would expect him to regularly defeat beginners, be on par with intermediates and occasionally finish above 55%.

Another way to look at it. Go to your bridge club on a good day, when the field lacks total beginners and the top experts. Try to mentally rate the players you see and know to play "serious" bridge for a few years - and ask yourself, if the intermeidate ones are skilled enough at counting hands to be able to visualize and execute a squeeze. I don't think that you will think "oh, this one could do it" unless you at the same time think "he's a good player, certainly advanced..."

And, third way to look at it: If you think squeezes are intermediate bridge, can you name enough topics for advanced and expert to warrant two more categories?
I don't think so. For me, squeezes are advanced bridge (and closer to expert than to intermediate)

[Trumpace]

coyot, on Aug 8 2005, 07:07 AM, said:

And, third way to look at it: If you think squeezes are intermediate bridge, can you name enough topics for advanced and expert to warrant two more categories?
I don't think so. For me, squeezes are advanced bridge (and closer to expert than to intermediate)

Not all squeezes are for the intermediate. Eg. Vice squeeze borders the advanced/expert line, while the simple and automatic squeezes are intermediate in my opiniion.

I would consider the skill level of the "intermediate+" and "advanced-" to be almost the same, except for the fact that the advanced can do a much better job counting out the hand and the advanced is able to recognise familiar situations more easily than the intermediate. Given sufficient time to think about the hand, the intermediate can play as well as the advanced.

The "advanced+" and expert are of the same skill level, expert committing fewer mistakes and able to focus better.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

But the fact remains: not all people think that squeezes are only for advanced or better. That is good enough reason to discuss (simple) squeeze hands in this forum.

[han]

My girlfriend is an beginner/intermediate player. She enjoys squeeze puzzles (even quite hard ones!), but isn't ready to execute a simple squeeze at the table.

[mike777]

Hannie, on Aug 8 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

My girlfriend is an beginner/intermediate player. She enjoys squeeze puzzles (even quite hard ones!), but isn't ready to execute a simple squeeze at the table.

As I said 100 true experts in world all the rest are int.

From last nite with my many adv/expert bbo pickup partners.
1) one pard passed my strong 2clubs
2) another bid 3d over my strong 2clubs with Jx of D, 6dx by us did not play well
3) another pard forgot to count to 13 and did not take winning side suit.
4) another pard bid a weak 2 and then rebid 3 on their own. of course x and got killed.
5) another decided to not lead the suit I opened versus 3nt and lead a nothing suit that blew 2 tricks.

[mamo2500]

I am an intermediate player, not good at counting. But I know the basic principles of a simple squeeze and sometimes it is really very easy and worth a try, even if you are not quite sure who guards what.
And it is a thrill when it works

Marianne