[Wackojack]

Scoring: IMP

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This particularly nasty deal came up the other day. I am sure that in most systems you will get into a poor contract and miss the not unreasonable contract of 4H. Could I invite honest bidding sequences in standard systems with a prize for the worst final contract? Or did I win the prize?

[ochinko]

1D - 1Sp
2Sp - 4Sp

Petko

[Al_U_Card]

You're right, it IS nasty. I guess 1D-1S-2D-p altho I am sure that some forcing club addicts might then re-bid 2H (less than 16 hcp) and play there......but a wily 1NT rebid could work out quite well....

[FrancesHinden]

Sadly I would honestly bid

1D - 1S
2S - Pass

4H isn't that great. Now a heart partial, that really would be a good effort!

[inquiry]

1D - 1S
2S - Pass

Automatic.

Mine isn't entirely natural system. A 1m-1M-2NT rebid would be four card support, and very strong game try, a 1m-1M-3M rebid is weaker than 2NT raise, and shows around 14-16 support points. This makes 1m-1M-2M either three card support or four card support and weak opening (weak opening in any case). Passing 2S is fairly automatic here.

[EricK]

I expect 1♦ 1♠ 2♠ pass will be fairly common.

But I know of some who might perpetrate 1♦ 1NT pass.

BTW whatever happened to the concept of biddable suits?!

Eric

[awm]

3NT might not be a bad contract on this hand actually. To make 3NT you need:

Spades no worse than 4-2 (or various 5-1 splits with blockage, or spades not lead) and ♥K onside. Almost 50% on best-defense, and probably better on real-life defense. Admittedly you need some help getting to the north hand for the heart finesse, but it actually seems fairly likely opponents can be forced to provide this.

To make 4♥, if a spade is lead you pretty much need ♥K onside. You also face some danger of a tap when trumps are 4-2, even if spades are not lead.

It's hard to evaluate things like this because it depends so much on the lead. Double-dummy I'd say 3NT is a slightly better contract than 4♥.

I agree that an auction like 1♦-1♠-2♠, or even 1♦-1♠-2♦ for those who hate raising on three cards, seems fairly likely. Two spades will probably make, 2♦ I have my doubts about.

With one regular partner my auction would be:

1♦ (precision) - 1♠...
2♥ (2.5 spade raise, typically better than 11-13 balanced hand) - 2NT (natural game try)
3NT

[badderzboy]

1d-2c
2d-2s
2NT-ppp

[luis]

I will reach 3NT and I'm not worried, what's the problem with 3NT? From your apocaliptic post I know 3NT is going down, but WTP? If you never go down in 3NT then you are not playing 3NT enough.

[mike777]

1nt(14-16)=2c
2h=2nt
p=p

[Al_U_Card]

The only good news here is that in any NT contract, they are unlikely to lead Spades....

[mila85]

luis, on Aug 1 2005, 12:53 PM, said:

I will reach 3NT and I'm not worried, what's the problem with 3NT? From your apocaliptic post I know 3NT is going down, but WTP? If you never go down in 3NT then you are not playing 3NT enough.

I agree.

[Wackojack]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 1 2005, 10:26 AM, said:

Sadly I would honestly bid

1D - 1S
2S - Pass

4H isn't that great. Now a heart partial, that really would be a good effort!

Interesting! I bid 4S (admittedly an overbid) so win the prize with Ochinko. (Thanks Ochinko, was this honesty or just making me feel not so alone?) Spades split 5:1 West having the singleton King. Hearts split 3:3 with the King the right side. So 4H makes and 3NT might be let through with bad defence. However, suppose opener had a minimum opening with AJ9x, x, Axxxx, Qxx, then 4S might be tricky but not out of the question.

We were playing weak no trump 12-14 and I lazily evaluated my hand as 7 losers assuming partner had 4-card support (either unbalanced or balanced 15-16). After reading the threads on weak NT Acol style v 5M strong NT a month or two ago, I can see that playing strong NT, then opener must be unbalanced making evaluation slightly easier. I don't think I would have passed though, so then probably the best we would have done would be 1D 1S, 2S 3S, 3NT p.

mike777 Posted on Aug 1 2005, 12:54 PM
1nt(14-16)=2c
2h=2nt
p=p

Opening 1NT looks a neat way of avoiding the problem but in UK you are barred from opening 1NT with a singleton unless you are psyching.

[Blofeld]

That's not true, Wackojack.

At level 3 and above, you can have an agreement to allow a singleton of any rank in a 4441 hand or an honour singleton in a 5431 hand opening 1nt, so long as you're strictly within the agreed point range.

[the hog]

1D 1S 2S - clear cut.
2S is not such a bad contract. Whats the problem?

[Antoine Fourrière]

In my system (to be fully released this decade or the next one), it would go
1♦ 1N
2♦ 2♥

1♦: unbalanced with diamonds (could be minimum with five clubs and four diamonds, or a 4441)
1N: 5-10 without a five-card major
2♦ 11-15 with five diamonds and four hearts
(2♣ would show four spades, and you have to pass minimum nine-card two-suiters with clubs, and, more annoyingly, minimum 1=4=4=4s)
2♥: to play

So I end up in the right four-three major fit on this one, but it's pure luck.



In standard, 1♦ 1♠ 2♠ looks automatic. The long suits are too good for a 543Q 1N opening. (But then, they must be too good for a spade raise as well?... Still, 2♦ is unappealing.) It helps if you play Reverse Flannery over 1♦.

3N is more or less acceptable, but the ♣Q contributes more than expected, and the hearts also mesh well.

[han]

awm, on Aug 1 2005, 12:15 PM, said:

3NT might not be a bad contract on this hand actually. To make 3NT you need:

Spades no worse than 4-2 (or various 5-1 splits with blockage, or spades not lead) and ♥K onside. Almost 50% on best-defense, and probably better on real-life defense. Admittedly you need some help getting to the north hand for the heart finesse, but it actually seems fairly likely opponents can be forced to provide this.

To get to dummy you need to overtake the club queen. The heart finesse wil then only give you 8 tricks.

4H doesn't look to good either if they start with 3 rounds of spades.

My bidding would be 1D-1S-2S pass.

If for some reason I'd be very optimistic then it would go

1D-1S
2S-2NT (ask)
3D (3-card spade support, extras, stiff club)-3NT

[ochinko]

The_Hog, on Aug 2 2005, 04:00 AM, said:

1D 1S 2S - clear cut.
2S is not such a bad contract. Whats the problem?

Sorry, but the pass of 2Sp is clear cut, automatic, WTP, etc. only if you can't ignore the fact that you've seen both hands.

You are North, your partner has opened, you believe there's a 4:4 spade fit, you look at a 7 loser hand. How is passing 2Sp a clear cut?

What would your answer be if you knew South had:

QJ9x
KJx
AKxx
xx

4Sp, WTP?

And even with the cards as they are dealt, you still have a chance to make, 18% or so. I know, I've pushed some hands to a vulnerable game at IMPs that didn't have a chance at all. Haven't you ever?

Petko

[hrothgar]

playing MOSCITO we'd have the followingblase auction

1♦ - (P) - 2♥ - all pass

1♦ = 4+ Hearts, ~9-14 HCP
2♥ = 3 card heart support, ~7-10 HCP

Responder COULD introduce his Spades, however, I prefer to raise to 2♥ praying that the opps will balance

[Fluffy]

I also go for the easy 1♦-1♠-2♦-p

Only alternatives I find are

1♦-1♠
1NT-pass

and
1♦-1♠
1NT-2NT
3NT