[han]

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

Q10
AJ9x
109
AQ10xx

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

[Gerben42]

Agree with your rant Dwayne, but there are some situations where the XX card can be used.

They double you and the following conditions are met:

- You are playing IMPs
- You are not vulnerable
- They ain't going anywhere
- You are SURE you are not going 2 down

Then -100 or -200 won't make a difference but the difference between 590 and 880 might be a lot.

[Double !]

Hannie, on Aug 9 2005, 07:09 PM, said:

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

Q10
AJ9x
109
AQ10xx

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

absolutely nothing eroneous about description of level of players.

agree that level of bidding of BOTS is debatable.

[inquiry]

Double !, on Aug 9 2005, 10:09 PM, said:

Hannie, on Aug 9 2005, 07:09 PM, said:

Looked it up, it was indeed 1000. But there were more mistakes in your story Double!, namely the level of the players involved.

Todat the bots went for 1400 and 14.47 IMPs, what's wrong with them? How good are they? Here is the east hand:

Q10
AJ9x
109
AQ10xx

North opened 1D, East-Bot overcalled 2C, passed around to North who doubled. Now GIB bid 2H!!! Little later they were in 3CX down 5.

absolutely nothing eroneous about description of level of players.

agree that level of bidding of BOTS is debatable.

The 1400 was a gift, but if the bot had stuck in 3Clubs he would be down 1100 anyway. Funny hand of sorts, 10 people overcalled 2C vul on that hand, and only three got doubled in clubs. Those in 2Cx went down two and three. 2C should be down four. The defense against the bot was brutal... Cash two diamonds, then cash two spades ending up in the opners hand, only then lead a third round of diamonds for a trump promotion. Claim 2D, 2S, 3C, 2H. The real question is why didn't eveyrone of the 10 who overcalled 2C not have to play in clubs doubled?

[keylime]

Why do people overcall five card minors? That's begging for punishment.

[AAr]

Topic on Redoubles:

I can see several reasons why you would redouble over a penalty double.

As mentioned, when you need a big IMP swing, and just making a doubled game isn't going to provide you with a large enough swing, you must chance a redouble. However, this use of the redouble, I find, is good only if you really think your doubled contract is likely to make AND you expect any bid the opponents can try to run to by at least two tricks. This redouble is not helpful in MPs where the best you can get is a Top (and the worst you can get is a bottom).

Grand slams you expect to make often get redoubled if they're doubled.

And, of course if they double your game (when you expect to take at least 12 tricks) (or your small slam when you expect to take 13 tricks), you redouble to try to beat the slam bonus. Again, this is best done when you're pretty sure you can set any opponent run-off by at least three tricks.

But, I find the best time to chance a redouble, and this is even if (and sometimes especially if) you think you think your contract will fail is to try to scare the opponents to bid on, and then you fully expect to nail them (double them and set them by three or four tricks).

Most bridge partners I came to don't like my last use for the redouble. It does risk scores like -1600 and -2200, but the gains far outweight the risk, IMO. Turning a -1100 into a -2200 doesn't cost too much in IMPs (You're always on the high end of the IMP Scale, so -1100 is almost as disasterous as -2200, esp when you had your opponents dead to rights and the other tables are likely collecting small plus and small minus scores), and often nothing in MPs where the worst you can get is a Bottom. Once in a while, this redouble does scare the opponents into bidding on, and you double, but they make, and esp. if your contract would have made, and this would REALLY be disasterous (esp. in IMPs). And, of course, turning -500 into -1000 is very costly if/when the opponents have a vulnerable game on (and the same applys for turning -300 into -600 when they have a nonvulnerable game).

But, if it scares the opponents into bidding on, and you can nail them, it could turn a -1100 into a +800, which will usually turn a Bottom to a Top in MPs or generate a huge IMP swing in IMPs. In both MPs and IMPs, the gains from turning -1100 into +800 far outwight the losses from turning -1100 into -2200, even if the -2200 is far more likely than -1100. This is far riskier in Rubber or TPs, though.

Still, I do wonder why more players don't redouble to try to get the opponents from bidding on even if it risks -1000, -1600, or even -2200, or still yet -2800 or worse. I also don't think reporting a player who scores a -2200 or -2800 because of a redouble in attempt to scare the opponents from bidding to Abuse is right because of the potential gains when the action does work, even if it might be -22 IMPs and taint the IMP score field. It's not like the -1100 or -1400 from not redoubling would not taint it either.

Just my opinion about one use of the redouble that is UNDERUSED. And, I also think redoubling grand slams is overused. When is making a doubled grand ever going to give you a bad board?

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Still, I do wonder why more players don't redouble to try to get the opponents from bidding on

Because this tactic only works against novices. If a decent player doubles you for penalty, he's not going to be scared off by your redouble. He'll just sit for it and hope for the best. If you do this regularly all you accomplish is reaching the hard to get scores in bridge.

If they run it's because they made a stripe-tailed ape double and were prepared for it.

If you're going for 1100, even if you convince your opponent that his defensive trick estimate is off, he's going to think you are still going down anyway.

[cherdano]

As Stephen is posting: Maybe someone having Bridgebrowser could lookup average results of redoubled contracts just for the fun of it?

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