[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-November-02, 06:44, said:

MP

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You would get 3♠ over 3♣ too.

3N denying 2 of top 3 honours

[pescetom]

WasWinM, on 2026-November-02, 08:24, said:

So your question really isn't how do we bid this but how do we bid this using your system?

No, just that it's not easy to progress a discussion without making and explaining some assumptions about a system.
It was p_marlowe who (rightly) asked what 3♠ might be, I answered.
There are tens of possible alternative auctions possible according to how you interpret 2/1 and what artificial major raises you play.
I tried to keep this as flexible as possible while giving it some context, I could have tried to set it with Jacoby 2NT and/or GF 3 card raises in 1NT or whatever history you may prefer.
If we start by showing multiple hands and let you choose your preferred system then other people will whine about that

In any case we are that that point now, so hands follow.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 07:57, said:

reading on further, I do not like your system.

You have said that before
And I have implied that I am not so happy with it either, in particular in terms of communication by Responder of length of fit.
Nevertheless I trust the guy who decided it and I have seen a lot worse.
It works, nothing is perfect, it's important to be singing off the same simple page.

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 07:57, said:

Why is partner jumping in a gf auction?

Jumps have a price and should have a benefit.
This jump to 3M tells us that trumps are fixed and control-bids are in order, stop messing around.
We had many other roads in a game forcing option and chose the high one.
There is also arguably some benefit in getting the auction quickly above possible interference in the other major, particularly at unfavourable vulnerability.

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 07:57, said:

How do you make a gf raise with 3 spades?

In multiple ways, including this one.
The flaw in the ointment is rather that Opener cannot distinguish whether any GF raise has 4 spades (but then neither can the opponents).

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 07:57, said:

Why is partner not bidding 2N

Because he is either willing to play in spades but curious about your shape or has reason not to bid NT from his side for now... both 2S and 2N (which does not promise a balanced hand) are exploratory asking Opener to continue to describe.

[pescetom]

Here are both hands, full rein to your preferred bidding.

MP

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[jillybean]

MP

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and so on to 6 spades

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 16:54, said:

MP

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and so on to 6 spades

As previously discussed, I would have rebid diamonds rather than clubs, but it goes the same way.

If you do take a walk on the wild side and open 2NT?

[jillybean]

MP

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I don't like QJJJ, regretting my 2nt opening.

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-November-02, 17:23, said:

If you do take a walk on the wild side and open 2NT?

Easy 6NT Lou Reed

The Velvet Underground convention

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2026-November-02, 16:04, said:

In multiple ways, including this one.
The fly in the ointment is rather that Opener cannot distinguish whether any GF raise has 4 spades (but then neither can the opponents).
.

So all of your gf hands go via 2C, and you don’t have a Jacoby 2nt style 4 card raise?
I think the ability to show a 4 card gf raise in the first response is too valuable to give up and include in nebulous 2C. You want that space to explore 6 or 7

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 18:58, said:

MP

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I don't like QJJJ, regretting my 2nt opening.

What range for 2N ?

If min is 20 I'm just bidding 6N, for us if min is good 19, gerber then 6N

[pescetom]

 Cyberyeti, on 2026-November-03, 03:03, said:

What range for 2N ?

If min is 20 I'm just bidding 6N, for us if min is good 19, gerber then 6N

20-21.
Yup I think a direct 6N is reasonable and coherent with the opening philosophy.

It would have been a top here, all were in 6S (or even 4S).
North probably has enough information to risk pulling 6S to 6N after the 2/1 auction, although I don't think I would at the table.

[thepossum]

pescetom, on 2026-November-01, 13:38, said:

MP

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Playing 2/1 with NT 15-17 and 20-21, your call?

Late to the thread but on some days I may have done

I am trying to stick with the highly disciplined 1 spade openers

I probably end in 6NT anyway

I know my usual 2/1 partner is a robot but 1 spade -> 6 spades, 2 clubs -> 7 spades, 2NT -> 6 NT
I accept a very questionable 7

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2026-November-02, 23:34, said:

So all of your gf hands go via 2C, and you don’t have a Jacoby 2nt style 4 card raise?
I think the ability to show a 4 card gf raise in the first response is too valuable to give up and include in nebulous 2C. You want that space to explore 6 or 7

Not exactly. GF hands with fit will almost always 2/1, but bidding a natural 5 card red suit whenever possible, otherwise 2♣.
The 2NT raise is nominally invitational in absence of interference, although it can be used by slightly stronger hands: opener can check back to discover length of fit and shortage if she so wishes.
Many Italians play a similar scheme but with 2NT always 4 card and some alternative for a 3 card invite. I tried it and was underwhelmed.

I don't find it a great loss that Opener with 5 cards may not know about 4 card fit. Responder knows and more often than not will be making the final decision because in possession of more information. Like all elements of uncertainty, it's also a problem for the opponents.

[mike777]

Fwiw

Meckstroth and Rodwell consider 5-4 fits the "Magical fit"
Very important to have a system designed to find them
__----------++++-------


Opening 2NT feels like the system of:
"it is match points, bid no trump, all the time"


It works here so let's keep doing it, kind of logic...

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-November-03, 05:32, said:

Fwiw

Meckstroth and Rodwell consider 5-4 fits the "Magical fit"
Very important to have a system designed to find them

Of course it is, and this system does find them. Just that occasionally only the Responder will know it happened. He's there in the auction and can always put the brakes on if concerned about 5-3 or push if enthusiastic about 5-4.

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-November-03, 05:49, said:

Of course it is, and this system does find them. Just that occasionally only the Responder will know it happened. He's there in the auction and can always put the brakes on if concerned about 5-3 or push if enthusiastic about 5-4.

Just to be clear, you respond 2C to one of a major opening even with four card support and game force values?

You do not immediately show support?

[Cyberyeti]

Wondering how good 7♣ is on this hand, if trumps are 3-2 or stiff 10, you can ruff a heart in dummy and a diamond in hand before trying the spades if the diamond Q doesn't drop which may give you information about the 2-way finesse.

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-November-03, 06:00, said:

Just to be clear, you respond 2C to one of a major opening even with four card support and game force values?

You do not immediately show support?

Correct, although we respond 2/1 (clubs only if no red 5 card). There is no obvious need to show support immediately if we have game force values and the system does not offer this option (splinters and fast arrival aside). I suspect that will come to be considered standard if it is not already.

[pescetom]

 Cyberyeti, on 2026-November-03, 06:56, said:

Wondering how good 7♣ is on this hand, if trumps are 3-2 or stiff 10, you can ruff a heart in dummy and a diamond in hand before trying the spades if the diamond Q doesn't drop which may give you information about the 2-way finesse.

Certainly clubs are better than spades.
On the actual layout both pointy queens are in West and any grand makes, it's a mystery how all our players managed to lose a trick.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-November-03, 06:56, said:

Wondering how good 7♣ is on this hand, if trumps are 3-2 or stiff 10, you can ruff a heart in dummy and a diamond in hand before trying the spades if the diamond Q doesn't drop which may give you information about the 2-way finesse.

Certainly clubs are better than spades.
On the actual layout both pointy queens are in West and any of the three grands makes, it's a mystery how all our players managed to lose a trick.