[pescetom]

Out of curiosity I polled it on that other more numerous site.
1S 60%
2S 37%
2N 3%.

Fair enough.

[pescetom]

So over to the other side.

Playing natural (or Transfer Walsh, I imagine):

MP

---

Playing Walsh:

MP

---

Your call now?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you show the fit and invite, i.e. 3S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-October-03, 06:14, said:

So over to the other side.

Playing natural (or Transfer Walsh, I imagine):

MP

---

Playing Walsh:

MP

---

Your call now?

XYZ now, so invitational
2C!-2D!-2S

[mw64ahw]

4♠ not going to muck around

[apollo1201]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-October-03, 08:16, said:

4♠ not going to muck around

OMG my junior days are over
I was planning a simple 2S given my (soft, on top of that) values are in the reds while the C void might help only a little

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2026-October-03, 08:16, said:

4♠ not going to muck around

4S is a partnership ending call imo. Axxx xx xx AQJxx s consistent with the auction. Yes, he may well have a better hand but guess what? He knows what he’s holding. You don’t. Why are you so reluctant to trust partner? Imo 4=4=4*1 would be a much better holding. Your club void and lack of aces will usually make game very poor opposite a hand that won’t accept an invitation.

So play partnership bridge. Your results will improve and your partners will appreciate having someone who doesn’t think they have to make all the decisions.

Playing xyz I bid 2C. Now, there’s a very good argument that in this one sequence one should not play xyz. You hold, say, xxx Axxxx xx Kxx. You’d really like to play in 2C, especially if 1S promised an unbalanced hand, as it would for me. Even if partner would bid 1S on 4=2=3=4, 2C will then be better than 1N.

[akwoo]

mikeh, on 2026-October-03, 09:33, said:

Playing xyz I bid 2C. Now, there’s a very good argument that in this one sequence one should not play xyz. You hold, say, xxx Axxxx xx Kxx. You’d really like to play in 2C, especially if 1S promised an unbalanced hand, as it would for me. Even if partner would bid 1S on 4=2=3=4, 2C will then be better than 1N.

This doesn't apply to mikeh, but for me, a better reason to only play XYZ when Z=NT is that opener is so wide ranging in this sequence, and on top of that doesn't promise any diamonds. So there will be minimum hands where opener doesn't want to be dropped in 2D, and opener also needs to distinguish 11 from 14 from 17. I'm sure there is a good way to work this out, but my not-as-serious-as-mikeh partnerships won't want to discuss this (and I want to spend my scarce partnership capital on something else). (I do play XYZ without much discussion in my Precision partnership, but the 1D opening promises 2, and 10-15 is a narrower range.)

For the given hand, with the soft values in the reds and a void in partner's first suit, I don't even invite (though I don't think inviting is wrong). I'll bid 2S. Keep in mind partner still has game tries, and the game try might tell me what my red suit honors are worth.

[mike777]

for me
1> opener very often just has a minimum opening hand
2) opener can break the 2c-2d relay, in practice this is very rare, so rare as to not think about it.

[P_Marlowe]

apollo1201, on 2026-October-03, 08:57, said:

OMG my junior days are over
I was planning a simple 2S given my (soft, on top of that) values are in the reds while the C void might help only a little

I was thinking 2S / 3S, ..., I went with 3S, but 2S is certainly valid.

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2026-October-03, 09:33, said:

Playing xyz I bid 2C. Now, there’s a very good argument that in this one sequence one should not play xyz. You hold, say, xxx Axxxx xx Kxx. You’d really like to play in 2C, especially if 1S promised an unbalanced hand, as it would for me. Even if partner would bid 1S on 4=2=3=4, 2C will then be better than 1N.

I too would bid 2C in this sequence.
But without any regrets about playing XYZ.
I can always stop in 3C over the 2NT Puppet, the odds of 2C being a better place and the opponents letting me play there are quite small I think.

[pescetom]

It has been a very useful discussion but now there are too many possible variations, time to let each person comment how things would evolve with his own set of agreements, I guess.

MP

---

Where do you end up and with what auction?

[Cyberyeti]

1♣(4+)-1♦
1♠(at least 4-5 blacks)-3♠
3N(heart control)-4♥(heart control, no diamond or high card club control)
4N-5♣(0/3)
5♦(Q?)-6♣(yes and a club void)
6♠

This is an overbid to not a great contract, but has chances

[mikeh]

I have zero confidence that any prediction about an actual auction with a real life partner would reflect a real world outcome. It’s impossible to ignore knowing the hands.

A plausible possibility for me, using xyz and transfer responses to 1C:

1C 1D 1S 2C 3H….opener is showing roughly 4=3=1=5 with significant extras.

1C 1D 1S 2C 3H 3S Now we’re in a gf sequence, since opener’s 3H shows values to accept any invitation, and the 3S bid rules out an attempt by responder to get out in 2D…one of the possible reasons for 2C.


Opener has a very difficult problem. He can hardly take control via keycard since he knows so little about responder’s shape.

Anything but 4S is a slam try and, while opener has shown some of his extras, he certainly hasn’t described his overall strength yet. Since lots of 10-12 counts opposite make for a good slam (picture Axxx Kxxxx xx Kx) and others not (see the actual hand…6S, especially on a spade lead and continuation, is not good..pulling trump, even assuming 3-2 limits you to 4 spade tricks and the heart suit runs for 4 tricks only half the time, and you can’t set up clubs. Even finding the diamond king onside, for a ruffing finesse gets you to only 11 tricks. Not pulling trump leaves you deposed to a possible heart ruff when the suit isn’t coming home.

So 4C, hoping responder has nothing in diamonds. Responder should, imo, not like his hand on the auction. Given his knowledge of opener’s shape….usually 4315 but 4306 is possible…he knows that his club void sent enough to let opener establish clubs and his diamond holding is very bad for slam purposes. He had a modest invitational hand that has become worse despite the 3H bid. Picture a super max…AKxx AQx x Axxxx and there is still no clear route to 12 tricks.

But I am not going to claim that neither I nor my partner wouldn’t bid 4H…I can’t be sure. Even after a forward going 4H…maybe 5H, showing the diamond and heart aces, given that 4H denied a diamond control. Now what?

I’d hope we’d stop in 5S and I hope we’d make it.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-October-03, 15:32, said:

1♣(4+)-1♦
1♠(at least 4-5 blacks)-3♠
3N(heart control)-4♥(heart control, no diamond or high card club control)
4N-5♣(0/3)
5♦(Q?)-6♣(yes and a club void)
6♠

This is an overbid to not a great contract, but has chances

Imo, keycard is not a good idea from either side. And showing the club void is a bad idea. One should show a void only when one expects, on the auction, that knowledge of the void will help keycarder place the contract. It’s extremely unlikely that opener will be happy to learn of the void, and showing it commits to slam despite responder knowing that he’s showing a horrible hand for slam purposes.

I think we’re again witnessing someone whose keycard is simply indicating a slam try, which is NOT the purpose of keycard.

[akwoo]

1c-1h
1S-2S
2N-3d
4S

2n is Kokish, supposedly a game try but actually a slam try - once responder says they would accept a diamond help suit game try but not a club try you can give up on slam.

My weak nt partnerships respond 1d, and opener then just bids 4s over 2S.

[mw64ahw]

mw64ahw, on 2026-October-01, 15:44, said:

Fairly straightforward in either of the TW versions I play. After 1♣
1♦ tfr - 2♠ 43s5
1♥ tfr - 3♦ 43s5

is
With regular partner I would hope
1♣ - 1♦ tfr
2♠ - 3♦ good ♠ raise
3♥ SI ctrl - 3♠ single ♠ honour
3N single ♠ honour - 4♣ ctrl
4♦ A♦ won't be void as 4xx6 breaks transfer - 4♥ ctrl
6♠

[mw64ahw]

apollo1201, on 2026-October-03, 08:57, said:

OMG my junior days are over
I was planning a simple 2S given my (soft, on top of that) values are in the reds while the C void might help only a little

4♠ wouldn't be a regular partnership for me as I play Transfer Walsh. I doubt we'd have agreed XYZ and the shape is too good for a straight raise, which may be passed out. Yes we may go down 1 on a weak opener or poor play, but the bid describes a shapely mixed raise type of hand.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2026-October-03, 16:48, said:

Imo, keycard is not a good idea from either side. And showing the club void is a bad idea. One should show a void only when one expects, on the auction, that knowledge of the void will help keycarder place the contract. It’s extremely unlikely that opener will be happy to learn of the void, and showing it commits to slam despite responder knowing that he’s showing a horrible hand for slam purposes.

I think we’re again witnessing someone whose keycard is simply indicating a slam try, which is NOT the purpose of keycard.

The inferences of the auction are quite complicated. Partner has a 3♠ raise with neither minor suit K so keycarder is expecting ♠A a very high percentage of the time. Blackwooder has asked for the Q, so with it you're committed to a slam anyway. There are holdings where the club void is good news, and holdings where it's a disaster, but it doesn't raise the level, partner can basically write down your whole hand with the exception that you might have ♥J.

I don't see any other way of proceeding that gives you more information than keycard, partner could easily have had AQxx, KJxx, xxxx, x where slam is good and the auction goes the same way to 4♥. Partner's only possible cue is club shortage.

A note would be that we can still be 5116 on this auction, we don't automatically open 1♠.

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-October-03, 15:11, said:

It has been a very useful discussion but now there are too many possible variations, time to let each person comment how things would evolve with his own set of agreements, I guess.

MP

---

Where do you end up and with what auction?

If you sell the responding hand as inv., which is a valid option, but not clear cut,
North will press and South will stall, but I guess you will end up in 6S.

If you sell the responding hand only as simple raise, you will end up in 4S quickly,
North has 5 loosers, and needs a simple raise to cover 4. And responder has no busieness
to go on over 4S.