[haver]

Bidding goes:

East: 1 cl
South: 1 dia
West: 1 heart
North: 3 dia

now - is 3 dia weak or strong or what??

[pigpenz]

can be weak, can be limit raise....depends on what you have agreed on

[luke warm]

normally i play it as weak, competition or no comp

[EricK]

I play 3♦ as weak. You can cue-bid with a strong hand.

Eric

[HeartA]

EricK, on Jul 22 2005, 12:41 AM, said:

I play 3♦ as weak. You can cue-bid with a strong hand.

Eric

Agree.

[the hog]

You can't ask this question as it depends on agreements. I play it as weakish, but with decent playing strength.

[helene_t]

EricK, on Jul 22 2005, 07:41 AM, said:

I play 3♦ as weak. You can cue-bid with a strong hand.

Would the cue-bid be 2♣ or 2♥? 1♣ could probably be a 3-card (depends, of course), while hearts are on your right side so you might want to play in hearts even with 4 hearts against you. And 1♥ can sometimes be a psyche in this position. Besides, 2♥ as cue-bid forces you to the 3-level.

If unsure, maybe you could bid some numeber of notrumps with a stronger hand (which you are unlikely to have since all three other players bid as well). Because 3♦ must certainly be weak. I disagree with those who say it depends on your agreements. A constructive raise is simply too unlikely to come up in this situation, especially when your fit is in a minor suit.

[kgr]

haver, on Jul 21 2005, 10:58 PM, said:

Bidding goes:

East: 1 cl
South: 1 dia
West: 1 heart
North: 3 dia

now - is 3 dia weak or strong or what??

Weak for me. Does show 4-card ♦ and 0-11 pts.
Cue-bid if stronger.

[coyot]

Weak for me as well. I mean, where would you want to "limit-raise" when opps have shown (presumably) at least 16 HCP? If you want to try 5♦ with intention to make, you'll most likely need a shortness in either opps suit - which can be shown by jumping in that suit. In the unlikely cause that you really happen to have a strong hand and want to take a shot at 3NT, cuebid the opps suit that you do not have stopped.

[helene_t]

Isn't it standard to cuebid the suit you do have stopped, after opps have shown two suits?

Anyway, I think you must first show your diamond fit with 2♣ or whatever you have agreed on. Then you can bid stops afterwards if partner is interested in 3NT.

[coyot]

helene_t, on Jul 22 2005, 06:22 AM, said:

Isn't it standard to cuebid the suit you do have stopped, after opps have shown two suits?

Anyway, I think you must first show your diamond fit with 2♣ or whatever you have agreed on. Then you can bid stops afterwards if partner is interested in 3NT.

Oops, you're right... of course, QB the stopped suit...

There is no need to show diamond fit if I want to try 3NT. QB of opps suit shows either game interest with anything or a good raise of overcall.

I think that there could not be time if 2♣ did not promise a stopper in this case - so I would use the agreement that over 2 suits, both QB have the same meaning - either just a good raise or a stopper for 3NT (which implies at least doubleton support) - while over 1 suit, it is just a generic force.

[han]

I play it as preemptive, about 4-7 points. I use 3C as a mixed raise, 2C shows limit+ with 3 diamonds, 2H shows limit+ with 4+ diamonds.

It is true that the above could cause problems when I happen to have clubs or hearts. I can't recall this being a problem, perhaps people don't psych enough at my level.

[Double !]

most people I know play the double raise in competition as being pre-emptive (whatever the criteria for that might be: many might make it on more of a "mixed raise") although I know a few people who play it as a limit raise (not an unreasonable agreement when you're competing in a lower ranking suit.

(with tongue in cheek) From what I've learned from a few posts in some other threads, the answer might be either 1) "no agreement", or 2) "shows some diamonds and some points". With less experienced players, don't be surprised if the 3-diamond bid shows a somewhat better hand than most would have for a pre-emptive double raise because they might not be as comfortable about using cue bids in competition to show a limit+ raise.

[haver]

East: 1 cl
South: 1 dia
West: 1 heart
North: 3 dia

now - is 3 dia weak or strong or what??

so 3 dia is weak by most of you - then 2 dia would be what? strong?

[luke warm]

stronger than 3d ... there are many ways to show a strong hand

[kgr]

haver, on Jul 23 2005, 01:25 AM, said:

East: 1 cl
South: 1 dia
West: 1 heart
North: 3 dia

now - is 3 dia weak or strong or what??

so 3 dia is weak by most of you - then 2 dia would be what? strong?

2♦ also weak. only 3-card support or less distribution then 3♦