[HeartA]

yes, 2♥

[coyot]

Chamaco, on Jul 19 2005, 11:06 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Jul 19 2005, 04:02 PM, said:

coyot, on Jul 19 2005, 10:49 AM, said:

The only problem hands are long suits of your own - where you might expect a game on 22 HCP. A good workaround is to bid 2/1  as either GF or 9-11 HCP with a good 6card.
(Good meaning that if partner has doubleton honor, you have 6 tricks in NT, if partner has a small doubleton, you're willing to play at 4t level in your suit.)

If the immediate rebid by responder is the 2/1 suit, it shows this type of hand - and p will pass or offer a game contract.

This is how Bridge World Standard plays it. Personally, I don't like it. One big benefit of playing 2/1 is that I can have the auction such as 1S-2D-2S-3D to show a very good diamond suit and a strong hand. If 3D is non-forcing here, then I have to invent something after 1S-2D-2S and I've lost half the benefit of playing 2/1 in the first place.

Ditto.
the big advantage of playing 2/1 is to set a GF early without having to force with cumbersome bids.

Resorting to "quasi/GF" means losing 75% of this advantage

Well, quasi GF can produce nice results (3NT on 22 HCP ). It basically tells partner: I have quite a good hand, if my suit is to become trumps or pull tricks in NT.

If you can't support partner's spades even after his 2♠ rebid, you either have a side 4card to bid now, or a hand good enough to use some 3card forcing (to try and get diamonds supported by p or his stoppers shown) or bid 4♦ (setting trumps).

Been playing this quasi-GF for a few years and I really don't recall any bidding disaster.

Anyway, partner has shown you good spades and you want to show him good diamonds? What for? If you have remaining suits stopped, you bid 3NT with minimum, 2NT with a good hand - and expect partner to bid 3♦ on 3card. If you have only one suit stopped, you bid it and p will either bid 3NT or support your diamonds or repeat his spades... And if you bid 4♦ over his bid, that will certainly show slam interest with good suit. wtp?

[asdfg2k]

Frances, I'm not sure you've had a response to your direct inquiry, although maybe I'm wrong.

IMO, a bid of 1nt followed by game is either:

1) a hand that is slightly better (or became better because of partner's response) than a flat limit raise. Maybe kxx-xxx-Kxx-KQxx after 1s-1nt-2c. You were preparing to bid 3s as indicative of the flat limit raise, but re-evaluated. (You only have to pray on this hand that your LHO doesn't ask a question which your partner responds to incompletely - if that happens, then you may be barred from bidding 4s - ooops, wrong venue...sorry)

2) a hand that is pretty much like the one posited - a little less than the HCP necessary to force to game with a 2/1, a bit too much to pre-empt (assuming 3H over 1S is such an animal - not all play it that way, of course) and a long enough suit (usually 7 cards) to play opposite a singleton with confidence and a void with perhaps a bit of trepidation.

Even with that said, I agree with Fred. The HCP and suit quality in this case are so choice (AJT; KQ) that partner will just not get it right if slam is in the works.

George

[Echognome]

The problem with 1NT planning on rebidding 4♥ is that it might not in fact be this hand. If you had the agreement that all game bids were to play, then this would seem to be the best route. However, if it goes 1♠ - 1NT - 2♣ - 4♥, some may play that as a splinter agreeing clubs. I have to admit that this was a concern of mine playing with a partner I do not play with that often. However, Frances' assertion seems to be the correct one. Why not play that 1NT rebid of 4♥ shows this hand, whereas 2♥ rebid of 4♥ shows a hand that has more values.

[asdfg2k]

void
QJT98765
Q3
KQ8

1NT followed by 4h.

George

[han]

Echognome, on Jul 19 2005, 04:48 PM, said:

Why not play that 1NT rebid of 4♥ shows this hand, whereas 2♥ rebid of 4♥ shows a hand that has more values.

Fred: "Another reason to force to game is that you might have a slam. It will be hard for partner to picture a hand with this playing strength if you fail to make a 2/1"

Given that slam is good opposite as little as Axxxxx Kx xx AJx, I think that you should bid 2H followed by 3H with the original hand. This is truly an excellent hand, you expect to have some shot at game with almost anything that partner will produce, and you can have a slam opposite a good fitting minimum.

I think that asdfg2k gave a good hand for the auction 1S-1NT-2X-4H (better hope that partner does not rebid 3D!). I think that 1S-2H-..-4H should be a little better, but should still be a very minimal hand, where 4H is a bit of a gamble.

[1eyedjack]

Cancel comment - appears to be repetition, sorry.

This post has been edited by 1eyedjack: 2005-July-20, 11:54