[Gerben42]

There seem to be several different names for some Stayman conventions and I wonder what the difference is. So can someone tell me the difference between these:

* Stayman
* Non-Forcing Stayman (even though you can't pass 2♣)
* Garbage Stayman

What I consider to be standard is a variation that goes like this:
2♦ = no 4-card majors, after which 2♥ = both majors weak and 2♠ = 5♠ + 4♥ invitational
2♥ = 4♥ can have 4♠
2♠ = 4♠ no 4♥

What's that called?

[P_Marlowe]

Gerben42, on Jul 18 2005, 07:52 AM, said:

There seem to be several different names for some Stayman conventions and I wonder what the difference is. So can someone tell me the difference between these:

* Stayman
* Non-Forcing Stayman (even though you can't pass 2♣)
* Garbage Stayman

What I consider to be standard is a variation that goes like this:
2♦ = no 4-card majors, after which 2♥ = both majors weak and 2♠ = 5♠ + 4♥ invitational
2♥ = 4♥ can have 4♠
2♠ = 4♠ no 4♥

What's that called?

Hi,

Your "standard" Stayman version is Garbage / Crawling Stayman.

"Non-Forcing Stayman" means, you will bid 2C even if you dont have
at least inv. values.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[coyot]

Another "standard" variation:
2♣ promises inv. values and after 2♦, 2♥ or 2♠ is natural, showing 5-4 (and forcing to 2[NT] or 3M.

Garbage allows passing any response (and best be used with 5 diamonds and 3+ in both majors).

I've never seen the variant above (with 2♥ weak and both majors.)

Also, lot of people like Smolen (which has the 2♥ and 2♠ responses swapped, therefore letting the 1NT hand to declare in 5-3 major fit.

[SoTired]

Stayman is 2C (or other bid) that asks for a 4-card major (or other variation).

"Non-Forcing Stayman" refers to whether the Stayman bid creates a Game Force or not. Some people used to play 2C as non-(game) forcing and 2D as (game) forcing Stayman. This system has gone out of favor.

"Garbage Stayman" refers to 1 or more specific sequences where the responder is trying to get out of 1N to acceptable suit contract, even tho it might be a 4-3 fit. The convention steals otherwise invitational or forcing bids. The original "Garbage Stayman" is the sequence:
1N 2C
2D 2H* = Weak hand, 4-4 or better in majors (equal or better spades). Opener passes with better hearts or bids 2S with equal or better spades. Not playing Garbage Stayman this sequence shows 5 hearts, 4 spades and invitational values.

An extended version of Garbage Stayman allows a weak responder with a single 4-card major and a 5+ card minor to bid 2C in hope of hitting a 4-4 major fit or else play in 2 or 3 of responder's minor. These sequences are more complex as some bids may have dual meanings. For example:
1N 2C
2H 2S* = Either 4s invitational, or 4s/5m weak. Opener with a min and 4s will pass. With a max and 4s will bid 3S. Without 4s, opener bids 2N with a min and 3C with a max.
Extended Garbage Stayman gives up the 1N 2C 2D 3C bid showing a game force, slam invitational hand with 4M/5C in order to escape 1N when responder is weak.

I hope this explanation is useful.

[Double !]

2H weak in both majors (pass or correct/ bid your better major), as I understand it, is an extension of transfers in response to 1NT. It's, in itself, 2H (1nt-2C-2D-2H) is an idle bid because P can transfer into hearts and then bid spades to show 4-5 invitational or better. The meaning of 1NT-2C-2D-2S is an issue for discussion as there are several potential uses for the bid.

[Gerben42]

Yes, although I think the 5-4 invitation is sort of standard, with my most regular partner it is GF relay.

[FrancesHinden]

The standard approach in England is that

1NT - 2C - 2D - 2H shows a weak hand with 4 spades and 5 hearts, and
1NT - 2C - 2D - 2S shows a weak hand with 5 spades and 4 hearts

Both expect partner to pass.

This is so normal here that I would expect partner to play it this way without any discussion at all. It's only reading this forum I discover that nobody else even suggests that as a possible method!

[badderzboy]

Hi Frances,

Same way I play as regular Stayman and yes I'm from England LTPB2 suggests as invitational. I suspect it may be a matter of probability playng weak v's strong NT?

Steve

[Double !]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 19 2005, 04:36 AM, said:

1NT - 2C - 2D - 2S shows a weak hand with 5 spades and 4 hearts

Both expect partner to pass.

This is so normal here that I would expect partner to play it this way without any discussion at all. It's only reading this forum I discover that nobody else even suggests that as a possible method!

Sorry, but this is one of the possible applications that I was referring to when i said that this sequence is a matter of partnership agreement.