[Winstonm]

Scoring: IMP

Auction:

S W N E
1C P 1H P
?

What do you rebid?

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[hrothgar]

Some players have special gimmicks available to show this hand type
(Using a 2NT rebid as an artificial advance has some popularity)

Sans gimmick, I'm torn between 2♦ and 3♣ and would probably bid 2♦

[flytoox]

I will bid 3C, not ideal, but this is the best move I think. If pd rebid 3D, I can bid 3H to show 3card support. If pd bids 3N I will think about that later.

[mike777]

2clubs

As Al Roth says if I can just get past this round.

[MickyB]

Yuck...

Make it slightly stronger and I'd bid 2♦

If I was playing weak NT I'd make a single raise

As it is, I've got no idea what to bid! Maybe I should have foreseen this rebid problem and opened 1NT

[Winstonm]

Scoring: IMP

This was partner's hand: how should he have bid over your response?

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[mike777]

Winstonm, on Jul 13 2005, 06:39 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

This was partner's hand: how should he have bid over your response?

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Playing with Al Roth this hand may make a slam try over 2clubs.
With me a tepid 3clubs courtesy raise.

[awm]

Seems like this hand will be fine after most of the rebids suggested. Perhaps the best auction is:

1♣ - 1♥
2♦ - 2♥
3♥ - 4♥

But a 2♣ or 3♣ rebid should work out fine as well:

1♣ - 1♥
3♣ - 3♦ (values in diams, game-going hand)
3♥ - 4♥

1♣ - 1♥
2♣ - 3♣ (3-card support and two aces is worth a raise)
3♥ - 4♥

[bearmum]

3♣

[the hog]

This is problem which surfaces at regular intervals in various magazines. There is no right answer. As Richard has pointed out, some have a specialised bid to handle this - usually either 2NT or 3C. In the absence of this, the compromise of 2D is best. 2C is an underbid - you will definitely not find 4H now as responder has a clear cut pass, and 3C most likely buries the H fit.

[1eyedjack]

It is even worse if you swap the Spades and Diamonds ... who is going to vote for a "manufactured" Spade rebid on a tripleton?

I don't like the idea of having to rebid 2NT on both a strong balanced hand AND (as a"gadget") on this type of hand, despite that I tend to play the 2NT rebid as forcing. Also there is a fair chance that this contract is going to end up in 3NT. I expect the opponents to lead my singleton, and I would rather that were in dummy ... rather difficult to achieve if I start with a gadget 2NT rebid.

One way out might be to use the 2S reverse as an artificial gadget. I am generally quite happy to rebid 1S with Spades and reversing values, which then frees up the 2S rebid for artificial use without overloading the 2NT rebid.

Some years back I read an interesting article proposing "third suit forcing", whereby the cheapest new suit rebid by opener after a suit-suit start is EITHER natural OR an artificial move on a hand that promises another bid but does not know where to go (almost always an unbalanced hand with 3 card support for responder and some extra values). It requires discipline on the part of responder not to go leaping to game in the third suit (which could be a major suit) just because he has the strength and 4 card support.

I have not been keeping up to date with current licensing trends, but in regulated events at below the top echelon I suspect that these methods may be unlicensed, particularly as opener is not promising game forcing values.

You would need to talk through your defence to 3rd suit forcing if you encounter it in opposition. I reckon that the convention could be vulnerable to destructive methods by opponents, particularly if the 3rd suit is a major.

Without any gadget on this hand?
2C is an underbid that understates the Hearts
2D is a marginal overbid that overstates the Diamonds, understates the Clubs and as yet conceals the Hearts.
2H is in underbid that overstates the Hearts
3C is an overbid that understates the Hearts.

As a rule, I tend to find it easier to catch up after underbidding than to put the brakes on after overbidding. The main risk in the underbid is that it gets passed out, but the opponents are still there to help you out a lot of the time that partner does not. I think it is close between 2D and 2H. But my partner sees me raise 1H to 2H quite often on 3 card support (albeit normally with fewer values), so I am fairly comfortable with a 2H raise for now.

On the stated responder's hand that is probably where I end up, although the opponents may yet get together in Spades to help us out. Unless the suits break well 4H is not exactly rock solid on a repeated Spade punch.

[FrancesHinden]

1eyedjack, on Jul 14 2005, 01:45 AM, said:

One way out might be to use the 2S reverse as an artificial gadget. I am generally quite happy to rebid 1S with Spades and reversing values, which then frees up the 2S rebid for artificial use without overloading the 2NT rebid.

I have not been keeping up to date with current licensing trends, but in regulated events at below the top echelon I suspect that these methods may be unlicensed, particularly as opener is not promising game forcing values.

That's quite common round here.

1m - 1H - 1S forcing for one round
1m - 1H - 2S =
6-3 invite+ ("BW death hand") or 18-19 balanced with 4-card heart support or a spade mini splinter, 2NT asks. You can also fit some other game forcing hands in if you want.

1m-1H-2S-2NT
3 own minor = 63 invite NF (like the hand that started this thread)
3 other minor 18-19 balanced with 4 card support (now 3H from responder NF but opener can bid game if he/she still wants to)
3H spade mini splinter NF

3S/3NT are 36 game forces, either 3S shows spade values & 3NT shows diamond values or 3NT is a serious contract suggestion (usually 2362 with honours in the short suits) and 3S doesn't know where you are going.

[coyot]

I would rebid 2♣, conservatively...

Bidding 2♦ is conveying a message with two lies - 1HCP and 1diamond. This will cause partner to find my distribution 3-1-4-5 (or at best 2-2-4-5), which will cause him to bid 3NT with something similar opposite (4-5-3-1...). And should I then correct to 4♥? (And find him holding KJxx-AJxx-xxx-xx?)

No, I can patiently bid clubs. If my p has a hand that is worth anything, he will raise to 3 clubs... and if he has not, there is still the chance that opponents reopen with 2♠ (and I can then try 3♥ to show that I have a good hand...)

[whereagles]

I think my esteemed colleagues are making heavy weather out of a very simple hand..

Scoring: IMP

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1♣ 1♥
3♣ 3♥
4♥ pass

3♥ is forcing. It should be because if you're weak with 6 hearts, you either pass 3♣ or bid 1♣-2♥.

[MickyB]

Agreed, 3♥ is forcing and the right bid on the hand. This doesn't mean that a 3♣ rebid is correct - sometimes partner will pass it, not expecting three hearts and a singleton opposite. On the other hand, you are pretty minimum for 3♣ so I guess you are still unlikely to miss a game...

I quite like the idea of bidding 2♣ and taking another call if opps balance. If RHO doubles or bids 2♦ then you can bid 2♥, if he bids 2♠ then you have X and 2N that don't sound natural...any suggestions as to what each should be?

[helene_t]

I think the choice must between 2♣ and 3♣. With a regular p, play T-Walsh.

Partner will probably pass 2♣. Over 3♣ he must bid 3♦ (GF) with the hand shown.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I will bid 3C, a slight overbid, but here
we go, but the fitting heart honours are
compensation enough, if partner takes
me seriously.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

For the record and because it's usually interesting to see what actually happened, our auction was:

1C-1H
2C-P

Making 5 - for a gain of 1.7 imps, LoL. Hearts were 5-0.

Neither Al nor myself got past this one round.

Winston

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Jul 14 2005, 07:22 AM, said:

For the record and because it's usually interesting to see what actually happened, our auction was:

1C-1H
2C-P

Making 5 - for a gain of 1.7 imps, LoL. Hearts were 5-0.

Neither Al nor myself got past this one round.

Winston

As I mentioned playing with Al the responder hand will make slam try not pass. .

[mikeh]

At imps, vulnerable, I rebid 3♣, because of the need to bid close games. At other scoring, 2♣, because most solid game-type responding hands will take another bid.

Over 3♣, I hope none of my partners perpetrate a 3♥ rebid on xxx Axxxx Ax 10xx. A clearer 3♦ bid hardly exists! 3♦ does NOT promise a suit. It is not an offer to play ♦. It is a forcing bid, usually showing something in the suit, inviting a ♥ preference with 3 cards and otherwise (usually) suggesting 3N should opener have a ♠stopper. Of course, it could also be the start of bigger and better things, on different, stronger hands.

As for a reverse into 2♦, that is needless distortion. It is distorts your shape and your strength. You are slightly understrength and slightly offshape. Whereas, 3♣ is right on shape and right on strength. Yes, you may play 3♣ once in a while when 3♥ is better. You may even miss a thin ♥ game, but on the other hand, you will reach the 'right' slam or game far more often if your description to partner is accurate.

BTW, if I held xxx Axxxx Ax 10xx and heard partner open 1♣ and reverse into 2♦, wild horses could not get me to rebid ♥. The given hand is a big ♣ hand. I would bid a forcing, forward-going 3♣ (easy for me because 2♠ would be (usually) an artificial signoff)