[shanbari]

North is dealer, 15hcp
S: KXX
H: KQTXX
D: AQJ
C: XX


South is holding, 18hcp
S: AX
H: AJ
D: KTXXX
C: AQXX

what's your reasonable bidding and find the double fit of both heart and diamond to reach the beautiful grand ?

shan

[hrothgar]

I play relay
Finding the grand is pretty trivial

Strong Club Opening
Game force response
Reverse Relay to show a mininumum 1C opening
Shape is known at 3S
RKCB for Hearts
Control ask in Diamonds placing the AQ
Followed by 7N

regretably, I can't place the Jack of Diamonds with certainty

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I play a system similar to Std. American, and if we are not lazy :.

1H - 2D
2NT (1) - 3C (2)
3D (2) - 4NT (3)
5D (4) - 5H (5)
5NT(6) - 6T (7)
6H (8) - 6NT / 7D (9)

(1) 15-17 NT
(2) Natural, Support
(3) RKCB
(4) 1
(5) ask for the Trump Queen
(6) Queen + King of Spade
(7) King Ask
(8) Heart King
(9) 6 NT, but 7D is probably a reasonable gamble

[whereagles]

I probably wouldn't reach it.

1♦ 1♥
2♣ 2♠ (4th suit GF)
2NT 3NT
4NT 6NT

2NT = 12-14 or 18-19. (With 15-17 bid 3NT.)
4NT = the 18-19 variant.

If responder tries 3♦ instead of 3NT, or maybe 5♦ after 4NT, it might be possible. But I doubt it would go that way at table...

[mikeh]

Playing a transfer method, I doubt that I would reach it.

Playing 2 way stayman, after a 1N 2♦ start, there is a good chance.

But the easy route is to play science: several years ago I played a relay stayman method that excells in slam bidding over strong 1N openers. The auction proceeds:

1N 2♣
2♥(1) 2♠(2)
2N(3) 3♣(2)
3♦(4) 3♥(2)
3♠(5) 3N(2)
4♦(6) 4♥(2)
4n(7) 5♣(2)
5n(8) 7N

1 = 4+♥
2 = relay, tell me more
3 = 5♥
4 = 3=5=3=2
5 = 4 controls, A = 2, K = 1
6 = Q♥, no Q♠
7 = top ♦ card, no top ♣card
8 = K♠, K♥, Q♦

Responder knows of Kxx KQxxx AQx xx, and also knows that opener has at least an additional J somewhere, to get to 15 hcp.

Notes on the method are available

[luis]

Playing Moscito it's easy, playing std systems it's quite difficult.
I think you are safe to reach 6 and you will be tempted to bid 7 so it's a feeling situation.

[jdulmage]

shanbari, on Jul 13 2005, 12:38 PM, said:

North is dealer, 15hcp
S: KXX
H: KQTXX
D: AQJ
C: XX


South is holding, 18hcp
S: AX
H: AJ
D: KTXXX
C: AQXX

what's your reasonable bidding and find the double fit of both heart and diamond to reach the beautiful grand ?

shan

1♥-2♦-3♦ (Agreement with diamonds)
3♥ (I've got something in hearts if you care, probably not 3, but good 2)
3NT (Nothing more to say)
4♣ (Cuebid club control, not gerber, i hate that)
4♦ (Ace of diamonds)
4NT (1430 on diamonds)
5♣ (I have one keycard)
5♦ (Queen ask)
6♠ (I have the queen of diamonds and the King of Spades, does that help?)
7NT (It sure does)

[mike777]

jdulmage, on Jul 13 2005, 05:50 PM, said:

shanbari, on Jul 13 2005, 12:38 PM, said:

North is dealer, 15hcp
S: KXX
H: KQTXX
D: AQJ
C: XX


South is holding, 18hcp
S: AX
H: AJ
D: KTXXX
C: AQXX

what's your reasonable bidding and find the double fit of both heart and diamond to reach the beautiful grand ?

shan

1♥-2♦-3♦ (Agreement with diamonds)
3♥ (I've got something in hearts if you care, probably not 3, but good 2)
3NT (Nothing more to say)
4♣ (Cuebid club control, not gerber, i hate that)
4♦ (Ace of diamonds)
4NT (1430 on diamonds)
5♣ (I have one keycard)
5♦ (Queen ask)
6♠ (I have the queen of diamonds and the King of Spades, does that help?)
7NT (It sure does)

You do not know about KQ of hearts. Where are your tricks coming from?

[mikeh]

jdulmage suggested

1♥ 2♦
3♦ 3♥
3N

with the comment that 3♥ was probably 2 card support. With respect, I disagree. Many would respond 2♦ with, for instance, xx AJx AKJxxxx xx or the like... intending to show a good hand with a potential source of tricks before revealing the good ♥ support. For those players, 3♥ suggests real support but might be based on two good ♥ and an inability to do anything more descriptive below the 4-level.

And 3N would NOT be 'nothing to say'. Far from being nothing to say, it is an offer to play 3N, for most pairs. And xx of ♣ is not exactly a good holding. No, one would expect 3♠ over 3♥, to allow 3N should that be responder's wish.

As for the rest of the auction, I agree with the comment that responder is completely in the dark about the quality of the ♥ suit, so can hardly bid 7N.

Some players use two-suited keycard after a double fit is found in a game-force auction, so for them, it would be possible for South to use keycard/kickback to find the ♥K and both red Queens.

[Winstonm]

I doubt the heart grand, but the diamond grand is biddable:

1H-2D
3D*-3S *extra values or 4-card support unbalanced
4H*-4N *Cue
5S-6C** ** asking for extras
6H-7D

Best I can do.

WinstonM

[luke warm]

S: KXX
H: KQTXX
D: AQJ
C: XX

South is holding, 18hcp
S: AX
H: AJ
D: KTXXX
C: AQXX

1nt : 2d
2h : 2s
3nt : 4c (3532, control ask)
4h : 4s (4, spiral)
5h : 5s (1 of top 2 in ♥,♠,♦ and no top 3 in ♣, still scanning)
6c : 6d (♥Q, no ♠Q, scanning because can stop in 6nt)
6s : 7d (♦Q, at least 2 tosses on hearts)

at least that's the way it *could* be bid... i hope it would be, but have to admit 6♦ or 6nt are possible

[beatrix45]

Howie bout: 1♥-Pass-2♦-Pass-3♦-Pass-3♠(this not a heart/diamond hand, but a real good one)-4♠(happy to cooperate, lookin' good)-Pass-5♣(Igot it)-Pass-6♦(no prob with trumps or hearts)- Pass- 7♦ or 7NT (I gotta ton you haven't heard about yet).

[POJC]

1NT-2S (transfer to 2NT/Ds)
2NT-3NT (2NT shows minimum and 3NT shows 2-2 in majors and 5D-4C and slam interest)
4D-4H (cuebid in Hs)
4NT-5D(Three aces)
5NT-6D (Looks for K of clubs)
6 or 7 D/NT has chance seen from N to Hs 3-3 or Jx plus 50% for club finesse

[inquiry]

Read Kantar RKBC book...two methods... seem likely,

1H - 2D
3D - 4D
4S - 5C
5H - 7D

2D = Game force, so 4D = RKCB
4S = one
5C = queen ask?
5H = yes, plus heart king
5S = spade ask, looking for grand,
7D = we must have all the aces, I have spade king, plus heart queen,
as Kantar says, if you can count the tricks, bid the slam, this heart holding
must be enough.

Ok, so you don't like bidding grand without being asked? Second option.

1H - 2D
3D - 3H
3S - 4NT
6C - 7D
Pass

3H = two suit agreement, now 6 keycards in play
3S = cue-bid (must be king or stiff)
4NT = Six key card blackwood
6C = two keycards (DA + HK) + both red queens
7D = if you have the spade king, 7NT is better, but king or stiff, slam is great.

The spade cue-bid here is essential. Without it, responder could still bid the grand, but this time, it might be 50% (may need club hook if partner lacks second round control of either black suit).

[helene_t]

Hey Whereagles, don't be ashamed that you didn't reach the grand since you had the handicap of opening the South hand instead of the North hand.

[Gerben42]

North is dealer, 15hcp
S: KXX
H: KQTXX
D: AQJ
C: XX

South is holding, 18hcp
S: AX
H: AJ
D: KTXXX
C: AQXX

With my junior partner playing standard:

Vulnerable:
1NT (so I have 5♥, sue me)
- 2♣ (Stayman)
2NT (I have 5♥)
- 3♣ (where is your doubleton)
3♦ (in ♣)
- 3♠ RKC for ♦
4♣ one
- 4♦ spiral scan
5♣ Q of trumps and Kings in ♥ and ♠, not in ♣
- 5♦ spiral scan: 4♦ forced us to slam as long as trump Q on board
5♠ Q of longest sidesuit ♥ not in ♠.
- 7NT (this contract has 80% chance even without ♦J)

Not vulnerable this hand is too strong for 1NT so:
1♥ - 2♦ (GF with ♦
2nt (balanced)
- 3♣ (natural)
3♦ - 4♦ (RKC for ♦)
(see above but ending with 6♦ showing Q of longest sidesuit ♥)

Gerben

[Antoine Fourrière]

1N 2♣
2♦ 2N
3♦ 3♥
4♣ 4♦
5♣ 5♦
5♠ 5N
6♦ 7♥


1N: 16-17 NT, so there is no need for game invitations
2♣: puppet denying a five-card major or a six-card minor (unless 6322/7222 or 6430)
2♦: relay, even with a five-card major (usually responder shows his pattern and opener places the contract)
2N: balanced slam relay, forces to 4N (2♥ would show some shortness, 2♠ would be balanced without slam ambitions and higher bids would be semi-balanced)
3♦: four hearts without four diamonds (3♣ four diamonds, 3♥ four spades without four diamonds or four hearts, 3♠ four clubs without another four-card suit, higher bids are 5422 or 6322)
3♥: relay
4♣: 3=5=3=2, so only 15-16 HCP
4♦: RKCB
5♣: two keys and the ♥Q, but no ♦K
5♦: king ask
5♠: ♠K, no ♣K
5N: forcing because of the king ask
6♦: ♦Q
7♥: better than 7♦ if opener hasn't the ♦J

[Gerben42]

I must suggest you do not use a 2-point range for your 1NT opener, it is bad for your frequency and will cause less precise bidding elsewhere. 15 - 17 NT is better than 16 - 17.

[Antoine Fourrière]

I disagree. A notrump opening should be more narrowly defined than a notrump rebid IMO. In the former case, responder may have everything. In the latter case, responder has already shown a four-card major, and has a lot of calls to differentiate his remaining possible hands. This is not the same situation.

[coyot]

Quote

  I disagree. A notrump opening should be more narrowly defined than a notrump rebid IMO. In the former case, responder may have everything. In the latter case, responder has already shown a four-card major, and has a lot of calls to differentiate his remaining possible hands. This is not the same situation.

No trump ranges should be based on a very simple principle: the lower you bid, the wider the range.

You could even play 1NT as 11-15 as there would be plenty of room to explore the opener's range (i.e. by sacrificing transfers and playing two staymans).

Once you have to bid on higher levels, you need minimum point range because there is no way to place invitations!.

You definitely need 18-19 for 2NT and you can split 12-17 into two even ranges or 11-17 to 11-14 and 15-17.

You don't need two-point range for opener. It is quite easy to accept invitation when your range is 15-17... Any 17, Any 16 with 5card, Any 16 with 2x4card and some 10s...

My guess would be that constructive bidding after 1NT opener is the most sophisticated part of major bidding systems - and it works quite well.