[bearmum]

coyot, on Jul 30 2005, 02:13 AM, said:

"quote "
I think that with the spread of ICQ and MSN and other IM programs, the whole issue of "no-table-talk" is a moot point.

If someone is going to cheat, we'll never stop them - and if they're not too greedy at the cheating, we might even not notice.

I often play online with my S.O. on two computers in the same room - and I've never cheated because I don't NEED the good result. I would NEVER ask my partner to describe his hand.

I will admit, though, to have discussed bidding conventions "on the fly" when we started playing together and there were a lot of things not agreed upon - but rarely would my conscience allow me to do this in a tournament, and never in "weird situations".
(I mean, agreeing answers on RKCB harms noone. I would never tell partner "this double is not penalty so please bid").

(And as for table play, I like to play with "crosstalk allowed" because, after all, we play to enjoy the game and refine our understandings - and it removes most of the fun if you can't bid a slam because you don't know how many aces partner promised...)

I agree IF people want to cheat online it's SO easy --- but REALLY the only ones you are cheating are yourselves ( UNLESS playing for prizes of one sort or another --- then I think that opps SHOULD send suspect boards to "abuse @ you know where" )

I too occasionally play with MY husband online -- and we do NOT talk about the hands UNLESS we are able to do so 'online' while still sitting at the table together

I am not sure what u mean about 'crosstalk' --- maybe in a MBC table -- IF you have asked opps if they mind you asking things like "is that RKCB?" --- BUT if you are playing with a reg P WHY would you need to ask such things? -- surely that would ONLY apply (if opps agreed ) with a pick up P -- where you haven't had the opportunity to agree BEFORE it comes up ?

[coyot]

You cannot look at your OWN convention card in f2f bridge .

If you read the quoted part correctly, you will find that see that I mentioned making the agreements when I started playing with my S.O. (=she was not my regular partner at the moment).

When I'm sitting at a table in main bridge club and a person replaces the partner of one of our opponents, I certainly don't mind if they make agreeements on the fly, if they keep it within certain limits.

If you're going to play with someone for the first time, or going to play just a few boards, it simply is not practically feasible to discuss all things before they come up.

Keeping the agreemengs within certain limits would for me be. i.e.:
Bidding 2♦ over 1NT and asking partner whether he plays superacceptance or not.
Out of limits would be bidding 3♥ as transfer super acceptance and THEN telling partner.
(I.e. it is OK to ask whether we play some gadget before your p has the chance to use it, but it is not OK to use any gadget and then telling).
Out of limits would be 1♥-2NT-4♠ and then ask p how do we play exclusion BW. Within limits would be 1♥-2♦-[3DI]-4NT and asking how do we play RKCB.

I am not trying to vouch for tournaments that would allow people to explain their bids to partners, epeeist, and you'll never find any such hint in my postings, so please don't try to make me look like that.

[epeeist]

coyot, on Jul 30 2005, 06:06 AM, said:

You cannot look at your OWN convention card in f2f bridge .

If you read the quoted part correctly, you will find that see that I mentioned making the agreements when I started playing with my S.O. (=she was not my regular partner at the moment).

When I'm sitting at a table in main bridge club and a person replaces the partner of one of our opponents, I certainly don't mind if they make agreeements on the fly, if they keep it within certain limits.

If you're going to play with someone for the first time, or going to play just a few boards, it simply is not practically feasible to discuss all things before they come up.

Keeping the agreemengs within certain limits would for me be. i.e.:
Bidding 2♦ over 1NT and asking partner whether he plays superacceptance or not.
Out of limits would be bidding 3♥ as transfer super acceptance and THEN telling partner.
(I.e. it is OK to ask whether we play some gadget before your p has the chance to use it, but it is not OK to use any gadget and then telling).
Out of limits would be 1♥-2NT-4♠ and then ask p how do we play exclusion BW. Within limits would be 1♥-2♦-[3DI]-4NT and asking how do we play RKCB.

I am not trying to vouch for tournaments that would allow people to explain their bids to partners, epeeist, and you'll never find any such hint in my postings, so please don't try to make me look like that.

Hmm, yet another thread in which I am accused of misquoting!

It was my understanding -- and if this is wrong, please let me know -- that you had mentioned agreeing to things "on the fly" with a partner who was on another computer in the same room with you.

I understood this, possibly incorrectly, as meaning, you agreed verbally (i.e. by benefit of being in the same room) to clarify something, such as whether rkcb was 0314 or 1430. If this was incorrect, please explain.

In my view, if what you are stating is or should be permissible, do it in public chat at the bridge table in whatever tournament you're in. If the TD allows it, great. If not, tough. And I think it falls into the "tough" category. If what you're doing is permissible, do it publicly. If not, don't do it, even if the circumstances are such that it would be impossible to detect and hard to resist.

The situation of a replacement f2f partner was akin more to a "sub" situation, than what you were originally describing. And even with subs, after the board they sub in on (when I agree they should be given additional information, even as opponent I've asked TD if permissible to tell them what cards were played before or that a suit was established etc.) no special treatment. Indeed, as I understand it -- again, looking forward to correction if I am wrong -- it is not up to players at a table to choose to waive applicable regulations; they must call the TD in case of an irregularity, such as chatting about what their bids mean whilst bidding.

In an individual -- the ultimate "pick up" partner situation -- with each new partner, you can quickly agree on basics. But of course stuff will come up that's unplanned -- tough. If one is playing in a partnership game with a new partner, tough.

I'm talking about "normal" tournament play.

In sum, unless I've misunderstood something, I disagree with you entirely. That doesn't make you a bad person, or me a paragon of virtue (though I like to think so... ).