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3154 Awkward

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 03:21



As if this hand isn't difficult enough already, you are playing with a pickup partner with time for only minimal discussion before the game.

5 card majors, 12-14 nt, 4C gerber, 04,1,2,3 (4nt ace ask if you have gone past 4C)
2C strong, 2D 0-6, all other bids positive.

What is your plan? Choose your opening bid and then check below.

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#2 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 03:47

I open 1

The follow-up: 3. I guess I am very basic; after deciding on my 3 rebid, I thought about both 2NT and (a weird) 2. I don't like either enough to overturn my first choice of 3
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#3 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 04:34

2NT
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#4 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 05:33

My plan is to open 1 and rebid 3 over a 1M response. I don't like making a jump rebid when only 54 but this hand is easily strong enough to cope.
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#5 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 05:43

A perfect hand for 1-1M/N; 3.
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#6 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 06:03

I go with the majority opening 1 followed by 3 if partner bids a major.
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#7 User is online   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 06:27

After the following responses to 1

1-3NT in case responder is xxxx KQxx xx xxxx & passes 3. Partner can use Gerber if max.
1-is it a 4/5+ suit?.
1NT-3
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#8 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 07:13

Yeah, 3C. Anything else is just kind of odd.
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#9 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 07:14

1D then 3C.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#10 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 08:48

3154 awkward, yes jillybean! as I said a few posts back, especially if 3154 with 5m4m. it would be good to have 1 - 1M/1NT - 2 as forcing here to save space but we all know it aint. (not for me.) so, I agree with many others that only option is 1 - 1 -3
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#11 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 09:07

1D opening.

If partner bids 1H I now vid 3C, surely forcing to game.

If partner, over 3C, rebids 3H I bid 3NT. That should be clear enough. Possibly it would be better to bid 3S over 3H in case it is better to play 3NT from his side but I am not so sure that this would be understood.
If, over my 3C, partner bids 3D, I bid 3S. This should be clear enough. Or so I hope.

there are other possibilities, for example partner might raise 3C to 4C. So I bid 4S.

The overall plan is: If partner responds then I force to game. I show my second suit, then I show I have spade values. Then it's up to pard, or at least largely up to pard.

It's a pick-up pard. If he doesn't think my 3C rebid over 1H is a game force I can't help that.
Ken
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#12 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 09:14

anything but 1D then 3C over any 1-level response is overthinking the hand. Kenberg (welcome back...I don’t think I’ve seen your voice of reason for a long time) nailed it
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#13 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 09:37



South leads a spade and never gets back in. Needless to say my auction was nothing like this but started 1 1 4 Gerber

Welcome back Kenberg :)
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#14 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 09:50

View Postkenberg, on 2021-June-11, 09:07, said:


If partner, over 3C, rebids 3H I bid 3NT. That should be clear enough. Possibly it would be better to bid 3S over 3H in case it is better to play 3NT from his side but I am not so sure that this would be understood.


1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?
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#15 User is online   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 10:00

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-11, 09:50, said:

1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Max with 7+ & self-sustaining suit West takes it to 4 Kickback
Max uses Gerber/Quantitative
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#16 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 10:09

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?



Because 1-1-3N means something else to 90% of people including a much longer diamond suit and less HCP
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#17 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 10:11

1-1; 3NT shows something like AQx x AKJTxx Axx - a hand that can make 3NT by running the diamonds, assuming you have something useful. However, if you're playing it the way you plan, doesn't KQxxxx and out bid 4, hoping for 2? or does 3NT guarantee a singleton because you didn't open on the NT ladder - in which case, does west bid 4 "my hand is useless in NT, maybe this makes losing 2 or 3 trump tricks"?

Of course, on this hand the hearts are 5=1 and the diamonds are 3=3. If the red suits were swapped, 3NT would look a lot sillier compared to 4...

1-1; 3 like everyone else. Partner has a good idea what we have and what we are looking for in their hand.

Note, those who play WJS m-M have a pretty textbook 1-2 here "no interest in game unless you're strong *and* can use my hearts, because I have nothing else." Again, bad on the 3=3 diamond break, but still.

I'm actually more interested in 1-1. 3 takes up a lot of room potentially needed to find the 5-3 spade fit, but I don't see anything else working.
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#18 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 10:12

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Max with 7+ & self-sustaining suit West takes it to 4 Kickback
Max uses Gerber/Quantitative


Where I learned to play the 3N in this sequence is a trick-showing bid not particularly a strength-showing bid. In fact, bidding 3N with this particular hand would be a good way to end up playing 6D in a 5-1 fit as the bid to many (most?) would mean a self-sustaining diamond suit.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#19 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 10:22

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-11, 09:50, said:

1 1 3 3 3 - how does this work?


The problem is that I don't know. Might it be taken to show a hand where the majors are AKx in hearts and a stiff spade?
Playing with a pick-up, and for that matter playing with a non-pick-up, I think it is best if bids show values in the bid suit unless there is some clear understanding to the contrary.So 3S shows spades. Very sensible.
But bidding 3NT over 3H must also be something in spades and a lack of enthusiasm for hearts, and that's what I have.
If 3S would have worked better I then say mean culpa and we go on to the next hand.
Not as dramatic as one of my favorite bridge stories:
After a bad result and an ongoing lecture from the male side of the table the female side promised to kill herself tomorrow but suggested that for now they go on to the next hand.
Ken
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#20 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-June-11, 11:49

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-11, 10:00, said:

1-1-3NT is all that is needed given East's 3154 & strength. Why provide information that could be useful to the opponents?

Because 1H is unlimited and we can have slam. 3nt makes finding club slams a lot harder and also completely mis-describes hand to partner (as others said, long running diamonds + stoppers is the assumption). This will cause problems a lot more often than the minor information leakage will be fatal to 3nt.
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