[Syl20]

Scoring: doesn't matter

---

How do you bid with your strong club system after South opens 1♥ (5+♥, 11-15H) ?
Please explain all the bids.

[Gerben42]

Straight from the Groetheim - Sontag book

1♥ - 1NT gf
2♣ maximum - 2♦ relay
2♠ 1-suiter - 2NT 6-shooter relay
3♣ 6322 - 3♦ zoom
3♠ 2632 -

Now my own slam system takes over

- 4♣
4♠ - 4NT
5♦ - 5NT
6♦ - 7♥

4♣: RKC in longest suit (♥), in ♦♣♠ would be 4♥♠NT resp., 3NT to play and 4♦ break

4♠: 2 no Q
4NT: Spiral scan, forcing to 6♥ (only ask after BW that is not slamforcing is asking for the trump Q)
5♦: ♦K not ♣K

Now:
5♥ asks for ♠K but does not help us
5♠ asks for ♦Q but does not help either
5NT asks for ♣Q
6♦ = yes but not ♠Q

[PMetsch]

How about:

1♥ - 2♣
2NT (1) - 3♥ (2)
3♠ (3) - 4♣ (3)
4♦ (3) - 5♣ (4)
5NT (5) - 7♥

(1) = MAX, 1-suiter
(2) = stronger than 4♥
(3) = CUE
(4) = CUE, so AK♣, 3 keycards (turbo: 4NT would be 2)
(5) = check for trump queen

[bearmum]

Syl20, on Jun 3 2005, 08:47 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: doesn't matter

♠ xx ♥ KQx ♦ Axx ♣ AKxxx ♠ Ax ♥ AJxxxx ♦ Kxx ♣ Qx

How do you bid with your strong club system after South opens 1♥ (5+♥, 11-15H) ?
Please explain all the bids.

playing our variation of Precision
1♥ 11-15 5+♥
3♣ 16+ 5+ ♣
3♥ 6 hearts
4♠ Q supporting H as trumps
5♣ A♣
5♥ -- denies A♦
6♣ K♣
6♦ K♦
7♥

[Walddk]

bearmum, on Jun 3 2005, 04:41 AM, said:

playing our variation of Precision
1♥ 11-15 5+♥
3♣ 16+ 5+ ♣
3♥ 6 hearts
4♠ Q supporting H as trumps
5♣ A♣
5♥ -- denies A♦
6♣ K♣
6♦ K♦
7♥

Not sure I understand this. Who bids 4♠ over 3♥? If North, how can he respond 5♣ at the same time? Maybe it's me, please explain.

Besides, your auction looks very nice from then on, but isn't it North who bids 7♥? How does he know about ♣Q? If South has

Ax
AJxxxx
Kx
xxx

you can't even make 6 on a spade lead.

Roland

[Syl20]

This hand is very interesting because the final contract depends on the queen(s) held by opener. You said you are not interested by ♦Q but in fact you are if you wish to bid 7NT when opener has Q of ♣ and ♦ for 15 Hcp.

To Gerben:

Here are some questions showing my interest:

1- When the answer to your RKCB is 3/0 or 4/1 keys, how do you then differentiate the queen ask from the spiral scan ask ? Or do you just add the Q♥ as an honour to show or deny ?

2- How do you proceed for BW when you are still unsure of the suit you will play in, for instance, when it depends on the holdings ?
What if you don't have a fit ?

3- Do you mean that when you RKCB for ♥ then every bid other than ♥ (and other than NT ?) will be a spiral ask ?

4- Is it really compulsory to play at least the slam when you begin Spiral scans ? This means that you only use Spiral scans when you hold all the aces ?

5- Can't you begin them to seak for a peticular honour and stop in 5♥ in case you don't like what you hear ?

[Free]

We open this 1♦ to show ♥s...

1♦ - 1♥ (4+♥ - relay inv+)
2♦ - 2♥ (max, singlesuited 6+♥ - relay GF)
2♠ - 2NT (short ♠ or 3-6-2-2 or 2-6-3-2 - relay)
3♣ - 3♦ (3-6-2-2 or 2-6-3-2 - relay)
3♥ - 3♠ (2-6-3-2 - relay)
4♥ - 4♠ (9 slampoints - relay)
5♠ - 5NT (1/2 tophonors ♠, ♣ and ♦, 1 tophonour ♥ - relay)
6♣ - 6♦ (exactly 1 tophonour ♦ - relay)
6♥ - 7♥ (exactly 1 tophonour ♠)

Playing our previous system it's quite similar:

1♥ - 1NT (10-15 5+♥ - relay inv+)
2♥ - 2♠ (max, singlesuited 6+♥ - relay GF)
...
the rest is very similar, just 1 step higher...

[Gerben42]

Quote

1- When the answer to your RKCB is 3/0 or 4/1 keys, how do you then differentiate the queen ask from the spiral scan ask ? Or do you just add the Q♥ as an honour to show or deny ?

2- How do you proceed for BW when you are still unsure of the suit you will play in, for instance, when it depends on the holdings ?
What if you don't have a fit ?

3- Do you mean that when you RKCB for ♥ then every bid other than ♥ (and other than NT ?) will be a spiral ask ?

4- Is it really compulsory to play at least the slam when you begin Spiral scans ? This means that you only use Spiral scans when you hold all the aces ?

5- Can't you begin them to seak for a peticular honour and stop in 5♥ in case you don't like what you hear ?

1. The next step asks for the Queen. This is not slam forcing. In this case there are only two asking bids, one for "Queen" and one for the cheapest bid.

2. On the small slam level this may be problematic, grand slams are always to play. Small slams are to play if you at least raise partner. For example on this hand you could have bid 6 in whatever on the ace ask with an appropriate hand.

3. After the RKC all bids except ♥ bids and 6NT as long as you do not raise partner or jump. If slam is guaranteed by asking for more honors than the Trump Queen below 5♥ then 5♥ is also spiral scan.

4. Yes, but also possible to find alternative slams (6♥ or 6NT)

5. Nope. But if you are so unsure about slam why are you so high?

[hrothgar]

Syl20, on Jun 3 2005, 10:47 AM, said:

Scoring: doesn't matter

---

How do you bid with your strong club system after South opens 1♥ (5+♥, 11-15H) ?
Please explain all the bids.

Free beat me too it...

[mr1303]

My go:

1H 2C (GF relay
2S (hearts single suited) 2NT (relay)
3C (High shortage or 6322 low/med length) 3D (relay)
3H (2632 or 2623) 3S (relay)
4C (2632) 4D (relay)
5C (9 slam points, A= 3, K = 2, Q = 1) 5D (relay)
6D (1/2 top honours in all suits outside trumps, 1 top in trumps) 6H (relay)
6S (1 in diamonds) 7H

I guess our system isn't as good as Free/Hrothgar's since we were stuck if the answer to the spiral scan wasn't enough to bid a grand

[Free]

mr1303, on Jun 3 2005, 03:16 PM, said:

My go:

1H 2C (GF relay
2S (hearts single suited) 2NT (relay)
3C (High shortage or 6322 low/med length) 3D (relay)
3H (2632 or 2623) 3S (relay)
4C (2632) 4D (relay)
5C (9 slam points, A= 3, K = 2, Q = 1) 5D (relay)
6D (1/2 top honours in all suits outside trumps, 1 top in trumps) 6H (relay)
6S (1 in diamonds) 7H

I guess our system isn't as good as Free/Hrothgar's since we were stuck if the answer to the spiral scan wasn't enough to bid a grand

How do you know partner hasn't got ♠KQ instead of ♠A?

[mikestar]

Syl20, on Jun 3 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: doesn't matter

♠ xx ♥ KQx ♦ Axx ♣ AKxxx ♠ Ax ♥ AJxxxx ♦ Kxx ♣ Qx

1♥ 2♣(1)
2♥(2) 4♣(3)
4♠(4) 5♣(5)
5♦(6) 5NT(7)
6♣(8) 6♦(9)
7♦(10) 7♥(11)
P

(1) 5+C, guarantees rebid but not GF
(2) Does not promise extra length or strength (suit quality not quite good enough for 3♥)
(3) Good clubs and heart support--suggests better than minimum game values, denies a splinter.
(4) Kickback
(5) (0 or) 3 Keycards
(6) Q♥?
(7) Yes, and K♣, no K♦
(8) K♠? (Spiral asks take precedence over alternative contracts below 6 of our suit)
(9) No
(10) Q♦? (6♠ asks for Q♣; 6♥, 6NT and 7♣ to play)
(11) No

[luke warm]

Syl20, on Jun 3 2005, 01:47 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: doesn't matter

♠ xx ♥ KQx ♦ Axx ♣ AKxxx ♠ Ax ♥ AJxxxx ♦ Kxx ♣ Qx

How do you bid with your strong club system after South opens 1♥ (5+♥, 11-15H) ?
Please explain all the bids.

2h : 2nt
3h : 3s
4d : 5d
5s : 7h

2h=11-16, 6+
2nt=ogust
3h=good hand (14-16), one top honor
3s=asking
4d=Ax(x)
5d=asking
5s=Kx(x) or stiff (has to be king else not enough for good hand response)

opener has shown the ♠A, ♥A, ♦K, but not the ♠A,K or the ♦K,Q.. so for his 'good hand' bid he must have the ♣Q with one or both of the major suit jacks

[luke warm]

actually i think bbo advanced 2/1 will do the job quite well here

1h : 2c
2h : 3h
3s : 4c - 3s is a cue : 4c shows serious slam interest with cue
4d : 4nt - 4d is cue, since lttc is too taxing for me : he needs to know about the spades (king or ace?)
5h : 7h

not sure if he'd bid 7h here, but certainly can

[luke warm]

that's true... of all the auctions given, i much prefer mine... think maybe i'm a little prejudiced? heheh

[inquiry]

Syl20, on Jun 3 2005, 03:47 AM, said:

Scoring: doesn't matter

---

Please explain all the bids.

1♥ (1)    2♣ (2)
2♦ (3)    3♥ (4)
3♠ (5)    3NT (6)
4♣ (7)    4NT (8)
5♥ (9)    7♥ (10) or 5♠

1 - normal 1H opening, no problem
2 - GF with clubs, or drury or bal 11+ NT
3 - more than minimum opening hand
4 - Sets trumps as hearts, shows real clubs, and initiates possible slam try
5 - Cue-bid first or second round control
6 - Serious 3NT
7 - A, K or Q of clubs (do not cuebid singleton or void in partners suit)
8 - Time to take control, blackwood
9 - two key cards, no heart queen
10 - partner's 2♦ showed more than a minimum, I know about the two aces and the club queen. But must have more to show the better than min. Queen of spades or queen of diamonds would not be enough. In fact, king of one of those suits is barely enough and would probably need a sixth heart with A, AJ, K, Q. I can bid 5♠ to investigate further. With a sixth heart (unannounced) and the diamnond queen, partner would bid 7♥ over such a bid anyway.

Ben

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Jun 3 2005, 08:41 PM, said:

that's true... of all the auctions given, i much prefer mine... think maybe i'm a little prejudiced? heheh

given that you prefer this auction to one where relay asker knows RR's precise shape and all of his top controls I'd say that you qualify as VERY prejudiced...

Relay has its pluses and minuses, but its rarely beat identifying slams during uncontested auction...

[Winstonm]

How about this?

1H-2C
2H-3H
4C*4D
4S-4N
5H-7H

or

1H-2C
2H-3H
3S-4C
4D-4H
5C-5N
6H-7H

I prefer the first, and as I play 4C does not deny a spade control.

Years ago when I played Power Precision as I remember it incorporated 2/1 game force.

I believe in slam investigations, secondary support for the long non-trump suit can be critical, hence for years I have played this secondary support as "filler" cards and not specifically the Ace or King. The south hand obviously can have some slam aspirations in this auction, but it requires partner to hold either excellent high cards or a good club suit. Note on this hand, if partner held only the K of spades and no diamond control, 6 hearts would be excellent, yet no one can get real excited until the club situation is determined.

WinstonM