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Watch Anonymously Thanks - 'Watch Anonymously' is turned off

#1 User is offline   scarletv 

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Posted 2020-August-01, 07:47

The possibility to watch anonymously was turned off the last couple of month. It was turned on again and now turned off again. I hope this will be the final decision as watching anonmously is supporting self kibitzing more than anything else.

Thanks for turning it off again!
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 15:48

View Postscarletv, on 2020-August-01, 07:47, said:

The possibility to watch anonymously was turned off the last couple of month. It was turned on again and now turned off again. I hope this will be the final decision as watching anonmously is supporting self kibitzing more than anything else.

Thanks for turning it off again!


I didn't know it existed, but I agree that it should not.
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#3 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2020-August-02, 16:47

Anonymous kibbitzing doesn't really make a difference when it only takes about a minute to create a 2nd/3rd/4th/etc. random BBO login which can be used to kibbitz another user ID created by the same person.
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#4 User is offline   shintaro 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 05:16

It definitely should not be permitted .

However if they are going to cheat to win at any cost by logging in twice

Well unless we know for sure (and i am sure we all have our suspicions) not a lot we can do about it

especially when they can play and kibbitz the same hand at another table in the competition ;)
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#5 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 06:25

View Postjohnu, on 2020-August-02, 16:47, said:

Anonymous kibbitzing doesn't really make a difference when it only takes about a minute to create a 2nd/3rd/4th/etc. random BBO login which can be used to kibbitz another user ID created by the same person.

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.
Gordon Rainsford
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#6 User is offline   shintaro 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 10:22

View Postgordontd, on 2020-August-03, 06:25, said:

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.




That is quite correct.

However someone has got to be very very suspicious to ask BBO to look at it, but even if they have done that, does it prove that they have "cheated"?

Personally if I ever felt I had to "cheat" I would just give up playing Bridge.
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#7 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 12:39

View Postgordontd, on 2020-August-03, 06:25, said:

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 15:22

View Postjohnu, on 2020-August-03, 12:39, said:

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.


As you say most users aren't that sophisticated, yet then you assume they are (creating multiple email accounts, using VPN).
I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.
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#9 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2020-August-03, 15:42

View Postjohnu, on 2020-August-03, 12:39, said:

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.

This is not entirely correct, but I'm not going to go into more details in case it helps any self-kibitzers.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#10 User is online   johnu 

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Posted Yesterday, 00:16

View Postpescetom, on 2020-August-03, 15:22, said:

As you say most users aren't that sophisticated, yet then you assume they are (creating multiple email accounts, using VPN).
I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.

I'm assuming that a number of players caught cheating by self-kibitzing were easy to catch because they signed in with multiple accounts from the same internet connection.
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#11 User is online   johnu 

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Posted Yesterday, 00:22

View Postgordontd, on 2020-August-03, 15:42, said:

This is not entirely correct, but I'm not going to go into more details in case it helps any self-kibitzers.

I know it's not entirely complete, but using VPNs or other misdirection services have been mentioned in a number of other articles about cheating so I don't think just this information will really help somebody who wants to cheat.
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#12 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted Yesterday, 11:23

I'm assuming that a number of players caught self-kibitzing were easy to catch because they played so differently from their norm that even their partners questioned them on it. For one thing, that's what they said happened. For another, that's what experts have been saying for years about those they have had "suspicions" about.

I'm also assuming that some that were caught were caught by being internet-innocent. I'm doing my best to not think about how I would be less innocent; in my Real Job, I have to not only be above board, but look above board. I take that to my bridge playing as well.
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#13 User is online   Tonyfrench 

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Posted Today, 15:48

Please forgive a somewhat stupid question. But why is there any need to be anonymous when logging into BBO?

Assuming staff may need this feature, maybe I see that, but why the great unwashed masses need the facility escapes me. All it’s ever done is cause issues for me....
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