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What to do...

#21 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 05:54

Pass, unless we have the agreement that 2NT (or 3♣ or whatever) shows this hand.

This is IMPs and we have more to loose than to win.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#22 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-02, 08:02

Winstonm, on Jun 2 2005, 12:29 AM, said:

Could someone please enlighten me on where I am misthinking?  I hate to be this far out in left field without a Real Big Bat.

What is the risk verses gain on these cards in bidding, not bidding?

Thanks,

WinstonM  ;)


I'm not going to say you are thinking wrongly since your thinking could be correct and mine wrong. But my reason for not passing is that, like you I don't think we will have a game (or if we do we won't get to it over 3D). I do think we need to fight for the partscore. Selling out to 2H with a void has rarely been a winning strategy for me, unless I thought they had a game. The risk of going for 500 in 3D is real, but not that great I don't think. Much more likely is a lose 6 when I sell to 2H. Even when they can get you in 3D X they often don't. Also we have a new breed of tricksters. The law of total tricks requires both sides to be in their BEST fit, and I would take a bet that our best fit is clubs, not diamonds. The opps don't know that however and I think will often misjudge and go to 3H. I think sometimes partscore battles are underestimated and they frequently decide matches.
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#23 User is offline   shanbari 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 08:08

would someone think of the danger of opps' 4h contract ? i would pass and give up this hand, it's just a guess.


shan
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#24 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 08:36

shanbari, on Jun 2 2005, 02:08 PM, said:

would someone think of the danger of opps' 4h contract ? i would pass and give up this hand, it's just a guess.

It has occurred to me. But I have enough defensive values to believe 4H won't make. And besides, chances are trumps won't break.
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#25 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-02, 09:05

I do not expect them to bid and make 4H. First, they stopped in 2H. Second, we have a majority of the HCP making them unlikely to bid it. Third, trumps break badly making them unlikely to make it.
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#26 User is offline   PriorKnowledge 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 09:25

For those bidding 3C, showing 4♠, 3♦, 5 or 6♣ and non-forcing, pls tell me what do you bid
AKxxx - Qxx Axxxx a hand where you want 3C forcing?
Or
QJxxxx - xx KQxxx a hand where you want 3C non-forcing but without diam support

Does
1W p 1X 2Y
p p 2 or 3Z = non-forcing?

Just asking
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#27 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 09:35

Quote

But my reason for not passing is that, like you I don't think we will have a game (or if we do we won't get to it over 3D). I do think we need to fight for the partscore. Selling out to 2H with a void has rarely been a winning strategy for me, unless I thought they had a game. The risk of going for 500 in 3D is real, but not that great I don't think.


Thank you, Justin.

WinstonM
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#28 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-02, 09:43

new suit at the 3 level seems forcing to me...
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#29 User is offline   PriorKnowledge 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 10:13

Thx. Good - I know some are playing the 2Z bid non-forcing. I am still stuck with the old new-suit-by-unpassed-responder-is-forcing rule.

Since 3C is forcing you can't bid it... PERIOD.

So the choice between pass, 3D, and X are judgement decisions, but bidding 3C is an error.
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#30 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 10:22

I'm going to perch myself out on my usual limb and bid 2N. With my regular pard this would certainly be quasi-unusual and if you have that agreement, isn't this call best?

Pard should opt for 3C anytime his clubs are one different than is diamonds.

Partner could be 1453, 2443, 2353, 1363, 0454 or a few other shapes. Sometimes diamonds is better, sometimes clubs.

I've known pairs that play 3C as non-forcing here. Similarly, some sort of good/badish 2N might be nice too.

Playing a 12-14 NT I think I'm at an advantage here. Pard would double to show a 15+ flat hand so he can't be balanced. Good / Bad 2N also applies so his hand is likely in the 10-13 range with some shape. In other words, 3 of a minor rates to play quite nicely.
"Phil" on BBO
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#31 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-02, 10:46

obviously if you can bid 2N as unusual this wouldnt be a problem. If you are in the 95 % of the world who doesn't do that, you have to make due...hence the problem
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#32 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 11:29

Jlall, on Jun 2 2005, 03:43 PM, said:

new suit at the 3 level seems forcing to me...

I wouldn't be so sure. There's a lot of ways to force/invite to game (double, cue, jump to 3S). No need to mobilize 3C for that as well.
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#33 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-02, 11:35

yes you can always cue but that is bulky and eats up alot of room while saying nothing about your hand. As for Xing, that gets ambiguous as well with a black 2 suiter (not to mention you may fear a pass). Let's say pard bids 3D...now what. You still haven't shown clubs. You're going to lose alot in constructive situations in order to stop on a dime in 3C.
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#34 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 11:46

Well, let me put it another way: if you can't bid 3C to show the 4S 5+C, 8-10 hcp hand, you're going to be outbid a number of imes.
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