[pilowsky]

Speaking of messing around, What's your call on this hand?
What are you hoping for?
From a tournament that is ongoing.

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Full hand tomorrow when the tournament finishes.

[AL78]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-02, 07:22, said:

Speaking of messing around, What's your call on this hand?
What are you hoping for?
From a tournament that is ongoing.

---

Full hand tomorrow when the tournament finishes.

I open 1♣, planning to bid 2♠ next, then bid spades again, and if partner bids 3NT, bid 4♣ if partner predictably bids the red suits. If opponents pre-empt in a red suit, I'll bid my spades over them. If by some miracle partner supports me in a black suit, I am almost certainly driving to slam. I am hoping I can get my shape and playing strength across to partner before the opponents ram the bidding to the stratosphere in a red suit.

[DavidKok]

An easy 1♣ opening in my opinion. With the spades in hand you can always cheaply bid your suit over whatever shenanigans the opponents get to. Your hand is terrific, the only real question is if you get to tell about your 7th club before the bidding gets too high, but slam is possible opposite as little as Kx, xxxx, xxxxx, Qx so I'm not overly worried.

[pilowsky]

Of course, 1♣ is an excellent bid, but since I had 15 HCP and a great looking hand, and hoping my partner would have a stopper in hearts I opened 1NT. Ridiculous. Good things happened. 1NT, 2♥ (Cappalletti),3♠,6♠. A good result for me. Not as good as if I had bid it properly of course. Double Dummy is here.
Which begs the question would you find or make the 'optimal' 7NT which nobody found?
The best score resulted from a 2♣ opening! I guess they do have 23 total points.
Some did reach 7♠ via 1♣ but this puts the contract in the North hand where according to double dummy it only makes 12 tricks unless opps make a non-♣ lead.
Here is the full traveller for the hand.
The take-home for me is that this is a hand where I need partner to know that we probably ought to be going somewhere. But how to get that across in one opening bid.

[AL78]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 00:28, said:

Of course, 1♣ is an excellent bid, but since I had 15 HCP and a great looking hand, and hoping my partner would have a stopper in hearts I opened 1NT. Ridiculous. Good things happened. 1NT, 2♥ (Cappalletti),3♠,6♠. A good result for me. Not as good as if I had bid it properly of course. Double Dummy is here.
Which begs the question would you find or make the 'optimal' 7NT which nobody found?
The best score resulted from a 2♣ opening! I guess they do have 23 total points.
Some did reach 7♠ via 1♣ but this puts the contract in the North hand where according to double dummy it only makes 12 tricks unless opps make a non-♣ lead.
Here is the full traveller for the hand.
The take-home for me is that this is a hand where I need partner to know that we probably ought to be going somewhere. But how to get that across in one opening bid.

Do you really want to be in 7NT? You need to run the ♣J on the first play of that suit and you need to cash the correct spade honor first so you can pick the suit up for no losers. Are you really going to correctly guess all that at the table? Just because it is theoretically the best contract on the lie of the cards doesn't mean the winning play is going to be found. You might think to play the clubs correctly if West makes an unusual 2NT, but I still don't think you want to be gambling in 7NT unless you are desperate for a big imp swing.

[DavidKok]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 00:28, said:

Of course, 1♣ is an excellent bid, but since I had 15 HCP and a great looking hand, and hoping my partner would have a stopper in hearts I opened 1NT. Ridiculous. Good things happened. 1NT, 2♥ (Cappalletti),3♠,6♠. A good result for me. Not as good as if I had bid it properly of course. Double Dummy is here.
Which begs the question would you find or make the 'optimal' 7NT which nobody found?
The best score resulted from a 2♣ opening! I guess they do have 23 total points.
Some did reach 7♠ via 1♣ but this puts the contract in the North hand where according to double dummy it only makes 12 tricks unless opps make a non-♣ lead.
Here is the full traveller for the hand.
The take-home for me is that this is a hand where I need partner to know that we probably ought to be going somewhere. But how to get that across in one opening bid.

That seems completely backwards to me. Right-siding the grand slam depends on the correct (or wrong) opponent holding a club void, I personally would not make this part of your opening considerations at all. I also don't like the psychic 1NT, but I'm more worried about your take-home message. You do not need to get the strength of your hand across in a single bid. The chances that it will go 1♣ - a.p. are slim to none. I have been taught (/am learning) a bidding style based on 'shape first' - so you bid your long clubs, and then some amount of spades on the second round to show a two-suited hand. Most pairs have a forcing bid (for example, a jump) to show hands like this, so you can also get some strength across at that point. The goal is to involve your partner and let them describe their hand/judge how much their cards are worth.

Incidentally in my system we would have a chance of right-siding 7♠ after a 1♣ opening. After 1♣-(1♥) partner would have to double, showing 4+♠ (we use 1♠ as a 'transfer' to 1NT opposite a weak balanced opener, denying a spade suit), and if your vulnerable opponent makes the risky overcall of an unusual 2NT instead partner would bid 3♦ to show a solid hand with spades. But this is all coincidental - next time east has the club void and north needs to be declarer (although after an unusual 2NT the odds do shift considerably).

[pilowsky]

In Australia anyway, my 1NT is not a psyche. 2♣ here would certainly be part of Benjaminised Acol or even just Benjamin 2's from my reading, so I guess I should have included 2♣ in the poll - I just did not think of it.
Anyway, as has been discussed ad nauseum on the Forum, You cannot psyche a robot. There is no alert box and even if there was, there is no TD for the EW robots to call. Obviously I was just lucky that North had the spades. I could not have hoped for a better lay of the cards. As for 7NT, you are playing a 24 hour daylong against robots so you can take your time to figure it out. Nobody got there, and I don't think I would have, but I'll ask my Teacher on Friday!

[nekthen]

I play with the robot lol

6♠ is clearly the best contract. You do not want to be in NT on a ♦ lead

[AL78]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 03:49, said:

In Australia anyway, my 1NT is not a psyche. 2♣ here would certainly be part of Benjaminised Acol or even just Benjamin 2's from my reading, so I guess I should have included 2♣ in the poll - I just did not think of it.
Anyway, as has been discussed ad nauseum on the Forum, You cannot psyche a robot. There is no alert box and even if there was, there is no TD for the EW robots to call. Obviously I was just lucky that North had the spades. I could not have hoped for a better lay of the cards. As for 7NT, you are playing a 24 hour daylong against robots so you can take your time to figure it out. Nobody got there, and I don't think I would have, but I'll ask my Teacher on Friday!

I don't like making a Benji 2C bid on such an extreme two suiter. I'd rather try and give myself room to bid out my shape.

[johnu]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 03:49, said:

In Australia anyway, my 1NT is not a psyche.

While you may be playing in Australia, you are playing with a GIB robot which plays GIB 2/1. 1NT is 100% a psych. Even in Australia 1NT would be a psych if your agreement was that 1NT was balanced or semi-balanced.

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 03:49, said:

Anyway, as has been discussed ad nauseum on the Forum, You cannot psyche a robot. There is no alert box and even if there was, there is no TD for the EW robots to call.

You have completely misunderstood the discussions.

Alerts have nothing to do with psychs. You can psych an alertable bid, or a non alertable bid. The presence or absence of a director also has no effect on whether a bid was a psych or not.

What you can't have is a partnership understanding with a robot to psych certain bids. Of course, this is impossible with GIB because GIB has zero memory of past boards so you could psych the same bid 10,000 times and GIB would act by assuming you had your bid every single time. So the practical effect is that you are free to psych at any time and as many times as you like when playing with GIBs.

[pilowsky]

Hilarious, no, I haven't misunderstood anything.
Playing with people I alert my bid as "15-18 any shape" this is not considered to be a psychic bid by the TD at my Club. Although if I do not say "any shape" then it is.
"Psychic bid (also psych, pronounced to rhyme with like) is a bid in contract bridge that grossly misstates the power and/or suit lengths of one's hand. It is used deliberately to deceive the opponents. Normally, the psychic bid is made with a weak hand, overstating its overall strength, the length and strength in a particular suit, or both. (The noun is occasionally misspelled as psyche, through confusion with Psyche, a character in a myth concerning Venus and Cupid.)." Mind you, since Psyche was married to Eros I suppose one could be forgiven for saying that I love to Psych would be a wonderful double entendre, but only, on balance, if the double was not for takeout - if you see what I mean - so to speak.
My bid of 1NT does not misstate strength, and in the Club (♣) I alert it as "any shape, so it's definitely not a psych.
This raises the question: What is a gross misrepresentation of strength? Presumably more than 1 standard deviation from the mean? Taking 15 -17 as typical in SAYC and 2/1 the mean is 16 and the standard deviation is 1. Therefore you should be able to open 1NT with any strength between 14 and 18. I have been advised by many players better than me that they will often upgrade or downgrade hands in this way to bid 1NT or 2NT. Do you believe that these are psych bids as well?
As for shape, a different system is needed to cope with responses. I was just lucky this time.
Nothing is 100%. Except for Birth Death and Taxes, and my inability to become the worlds best Bridge player. OK, quite a few things are 100% sometimes .

[nige1]

Pilowski asks "Speaking of messing around, What's your call on this hand?"
Playing with GIB, I reckon 1♠ is the best practical call. because ♠ contracts usually outscore ♣ contracts.
e.g. if partner holds ♠ x x x ♥ K x x x ♦ Q x x ♣ x x x
Then you are probably better off in 4♠ than 5♣.
Opposite a human partner, 1♣ has much more going for it.

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[nudnikbp]

Instead of thinking, I'd just open one club. That seems normal.

[johnu]

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 19:43, said:

Hilarious, no, I haven't misunderstood anything.
Playing with people I alert my bid as "15-18 any shape" this is not considered to be a psychic bid by the TD at my Club. Although if I do not say "any shape" then it is.

If that's your agreement, more power to you If you bid 1NT with the posted hand while playing with GIB, it is a psych because it is a gross deviation from a balanced shape which is part of the GIB 2/1 system.

pilowsky, on 2020-June-03, 19:43, said:

This raises the question: What is a gross misrepresentation of strength? Presumably more than 1 standard deviation from the mean? Taking 15 -17 as typical in SAYC and 2/1 the mean is 16 and the standard deviation is 1. Therefore you should be able to open 1NT with any strength between 14 and 18. I have been advised by many players better than me that they will often upgrade or downgrade hands in this way to bid 1NT or 2NT. Do you believe that these are psych bids as well?

1 standard deviation from the mean??? LOL. Psychs are usually defined as a gross deviations from an agreement. So 1 HCP outside the agreed range is just a deviation, not a gross deviation. So, you could bid 1NT with a 14 HCP, or with an 18 HCP. The caveat is that if you consistently open 1NT with 14 HCP or 18 HCP, but announce your range as 15-17, then you are providing misinformation to the opponents.

[bluenikki]

nige1, on 2020-June-03, 19:57, said:

Pilowski asks "Speaking of messing around, What's your call on this hand?"
Playing with GIB, I reckon 1♠ is the best practical call. because ♠ contracts usually outscore ♣ contracts.
e.g. if partner holds ♠ x x x ♥ K x x x ♦ Q x x ♣ x x x
Then you are probably better off in 4♠ than 5♣.
Opposite a human partner, 1♣ has much more going for it.

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Yes, if partner is 3-3 in blacks, you're better off in 4♠ than 5♣.

But what about 2-2? Will partner know not to insist on spades if you open 1♠?

Or worse: what if he has 2 spades and 3 clubs?

[lamford]

Anybody who doesn't open 1C is either playing with the Rueful Rabbit or should have men in white coats come and take him away.