[shyams]

Title refers to my MP score on this board .
Matchpoints. Board 1, dealer N, none vul.

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How would you bid this?

[P_Marlowe]

Pass - 2C (1)
2D (2) - 2S
2NT (3) - 3H (4)
3NT (5) - pass (6)

(1) 23HCP, easy rebid
(2) pos, gf, waiting
(3) nat., distributed values, should show 2 spades
(4) 4+
(5) 3S is an alternative, but given we have already shown 2S, it most likely should show an honor,
or doubtful stoppers
(6) given that partner is a passed hand, with wasted diamond values, I dont think you should invited / force,
but even a quant. 4NT would end the auction

With kind regards
Marlowe

[DavidKok]

A tough hand! Assuming the opponents are silent, maybe something like
P - 2♣* (any GF hand or 22-23 NT)
2♦* (relay) - 2♠ (GF with spades)
2NT (4+ points, 2- spades) - 3♥
3♠* (waiting, stronger than 3NT. Often exactly 2 spades) - 4♣* (values)
4♦* (control) - 4♥/♠ (to play)
4NT* (Blackwood) - 5♣* (1/4 key cards)
5♦* (queen ask) - 5♠ (if 4♥ was bid earlier, showing the king of spades and the queen of hearts) or 5♥ (if 4♠ was bid earlier, identical meaning with flipped suits)
6♥/6♠ - a.p.


I think by the time South bids 4M in this sequence North knows that a small slam is close, especially 6♥ in the Moysian fit. South rates to have pretty solid spades, North's points are absolutely amazing (king of clubs opposite 'values', ace of diamonds opposite presumed shortness, JTx of hearts opposite length). The real question is whether to go for 6♥/6♠ or 6NT. Expecting weakness in diamonds North might be able to pick a suit contract, although I'm not sure I would be able to find this at the table.

[Cyberyeti]

A certain amount of seeing both hands here, it looks like partner bids the same way with xx, xxx, Axx, Q10xxx where 6♣ is excellent, add a major suit J (or 2 and take away the 5th club) other slams are cold.

This is an ENORMOUS 23 count (K&R gives it as 26 which I think is too much, but I think 24-25 is reasonable) opposite what in this sequence is an excellent 8.

We would be in 6♠ once partner shows a hand 2-2 or 2-3 in the majors without a biddable minor and stops in each minor of about 8 points.

As it is 6N is not terrible (mid 40s %), spades 3-3 or ♣ Qxx onside if they lead a diamond, if they don't Q10 onside will do also, but I think 6M is better.

[nullve]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-May-31, 04:19, said:

This is an ENORMOUS 23 count (K&R gives it as 26 which I think is too much, but I think 24-25 is reasonable) opposite what in this sequence is an excellent 8.

K&R counts Goren distributional points but then discounts the first doubleton. It's not like K&R is treating these 23 hcp as 26 hcp because they're exceptional.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-May-31, 04:19, said:

A certain amount of seeing both hands here, it looks like partner bids the same way with xx, xxx, Axx, Q10xxx where 6♣ is excellent, add a major suit J (or 2 and take away the 5th club) other slams are cold.

With that hand I would sign off with 3NT after 3♥ (and miss the excellent 6♣). Partner's bidding so far has done nothing to improve my hand, and I have exactly what that bid promises ((4)5-7 points with values in both minors and no own suit).

[Cyberyeti]

nullve, on 2020-May-31, 05:09, said:

K&R counts Goren distributional points but then discounts the first doubleton. It's not like K&R is treating these 23 hcp as 26 hcp because they're exceptional.

But this one is, AKQ in both majors with other cards worth way more than 18, make a small spade a small diamond and K&R still shows 24.15, I'm just saying this is not a 23 count, it has extras due to the honour structure and that alone makes it worth a slam opposite a hand with a doubleton spade, club card and ♦A.

[Tramticket]

It is not fashionable to respond 2NT with a positive, but a simple natural Acol auction might be: 2♣-2NT-3♠-3NT-4♥-4NT-Pass.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2020-May-31, 07:20, said:

It is not fashionable to respond 2NT with a positive, but a simple natural Acol auction might be: 2♣-2NT-3♠-3NT-4♥-4NT-Pass.

Because of the way our system is a 2N response needs to be invitational opposite 22-23 bal, so this doesn't quite make it.

[dsLawsd]

Hard to disagree with any proposed auction.
2 NT over 2♠ would be possible, but I like bidding 3♦suggesting a good 6-8 HCP with less than 4 hearts.

When South bids 3♥ that makes the North hand worth some try- perhaps 4NT or 4♣ not showing the minors but denies a great fit. That might yield a pass or a flight toward 6 of a major.

What is the state of your score to this point? Need a top then pick a slam with 5NT.

[nekthen]

I guess 6♥ is the only making slam. It is certainly most likely make, but can you honestly bid to it knowing that you have all 5 honours which you need for a high ruff and cope with 4-2 break? I will stay with the pessimists in 3N

[Cyberyeti]

nekthen, on 2020-June-01, 07:55, said:

I guess 6♥ is the only making slam. It is certainly most likely make, but can you honestly bid to it knowing that you have all 5 honours which you need for a high ruff and cope with 4-2 break? I will stay with the pessimists in 3N

I think 6♠ is not as good as 6♥ but pretty good and worth bidding, win the diamond lead and hook the club at trick 2. Unless clubs are 5-1 offside, you're on spades 3-3 or spades 4-2 and the club finesse. 6♥ is on spades 4-2 or 3-3 and hearts 4-2 or 3-3, you might just survive if the second spade is ruffed in front of dummy if the club finesse works.

[bluenikki]

nekthen, on 2020-June-01, 07:55, said:

I guess 6♥ is the only making slam. It is certainly most likely make, but can you honestly bid to it knowing that you have all 5 honours which you need for a high ruff and cope with 4-2 break? I will stay with the pessimists in 3N

South needs to learn North's J10 of ♥ of course. But equivalently, North could learn South's AKQx.

If the auction after 2♣ is structured to accommodate 4441 or 5431 shape, you could handle it. For example:

2♣ - 2♠ : 2 or more control points, no 6-card suit or 5-5
2NT - 3♥ : no 6+ or 5-5, asking || 3 control points, no shortness; or 4 control points, some sing or void
3♠ - 4♣ : artificial slam authorization, any suit bid below slam is forcing || Hxxx(x) in ♣
4♥ - 4NT : Hxxx(x) in ♥ , not in ♣ or ♦ || no Hxxx(x) in ♥ or ♠ , no extra queens

At this point, opener could pass, or bid 5♣ to support worse than Hxxx, or bid 5♠ to show a suit playable at slam opposite worse than Hxxx .

[miamijd]

It's not easy playing 2/1. Much easier playing a big club system. But in 2/1, perhaps:

2C 2D
2S 2NT
3H 3S(1)
4C(2) 5NT(3)
6H

(1) two spades; stronger than 3NT (opener can bid 3NT with a minimum)
(2) patterning out; stronger than a minimum (min bids 3NT)
(3) Pick a Slam; should be 2/3/4/4

The reason 5NT should be 2/3/4/4 here is (i) responder has shown two spades; (ii) responder didn't raise clubs, so he doesn't have five of them, but still appears to consider clubs if opener is 5404, so likely four); (iii) responder appears to be considering H as a possible strain, so 3 is likely as he has denied four. Also, if any of these are not true, responder has five diamonds, but he bid 2NT, not 3D.

When opener shows a probable 5413 with slam interest, responder's hand becomes awfully good. And besides, this auction gives me a chance to use my second-favorite convention (5NT pick a slam).

Cheers,
mike

[msjennifer]

P_Marlowe, on 2020-May-31, 03:44, said:

Pass - 2C (1)
2D (2) - 2S
2NT (3) - 3H (4)
3NT (5) - pass (6)

(1) 23HCP, easy rebid
(2) pos, gf, waiting
(3) nat., distributed values, should show 2 spades
(4) 4+
(5) 3S is an alternative, but given we have already shown 2S, it most likely should show an honor,
or doubtful stoppers
(6) given that partner is a passed hand, with wasted diamond values, I dont think you should invited / force,
but even a quant. 4NT would end the auction

With kind regards
Marlowe

Sir,I ,too, would duplicate this auction of yours. Very accurate reasoning(or if I may say "logic").Thanks .This is an easy hand for Super Precision.
P-P-1♣-P
1♦-P-1♠-P

1NT-P-2♣-P
3♣-P-3♦-P
3NT-ALL PASS
1NT denies 3 card support and denies a five card outside suit.2C is relay-3C shows 6/7 HCP clubs and another four card suit.3D asks for clarification.3NT shows a 2344 hand with strength located in the minors (at least Q in each minor suit.

[helene_t]

Uwe's auction looks normal. Maybe I would say that North should accept a quantitative 4NT, but that's a question of style.

I don't think that 2NT shows two spades. N would bid the same with 1354. Anyway, I agree with the 3NT bid.

But probably I wouldn't be able to keep out of slam as South, after a positive response. Maybe something like
2♣-2♦
2♠-2NT
3♥-3NT
4♣-4♥
5NT(pick a slam)-6♣
pass-arghhhhh

6♥ is a good contract, and 6♠ has good chances also. Probably much of the field will bid 6nt?

[Stephen Tu]

helene_t, on 2020-June-01, 19:55, said:

But probably I wouldn't be able to keep out of slam as South, after a positive response. Maybe something like

Does a positive response promise so much? I think the way many people play, the 2d followed by 2nt response just shows a non-bust (from failure to bid 2h immed double neg/3c 2nd round neg), something > (>=?) 2 Qs. Thus North could do "positive" with say DA CQ or DK CQ or something like that or various other things where slam is a lot worse/hopeless.

That's why I prefer systems where responder can make an immediate true slam inv positive, something with 2+ tricks rather than just 1 trick (for me 5+ on a 3/2/1 scale for A/K/Q); I play Marshall Miles's suggestion of swapping 2nt/2H responses so that it saves room when partner has spades and can use normal system over opener's balanced hands subsequently. Auction might conceivably go something like:
2c-2h
2s-2nt
3h-3nt
4c-5nt
?

[hamish32]

6H is almost 100% needing just 4-2 breaks in Hearts and Spades. 6S and 6NT are similar needing spades to break 3-3 or the club finesse. However 6S is considerably better than 6NT because of the D situation on a D lead. 7H needs the club finesse and a 33 Spade break so its bad.

Resting in 3NT is only good in a room full of weak players. But many people do t have the methods to consider are moysian fit for slam so considering resting in 3NT is understandable i suppose.

[hamish32]

Our bidding based on a forcing 1 Bid (fantunes style). Not promoting our methods just giving our answer:

P - 1S
1NT - 2C
2D - 2H
2NT - 3C
3D - 3H
4C - 4S
5D - 6H

1S 14+ forcing
1NT 0-10 not 8+ with a good 5 card suit
2C Gazzilli
2D 8-10
2H 18+ a 5+S exactly 4H and a singleton
2NT - we are in a game force and want to know the whole shape
3C - 5413
3D - D hold not sure that 3NT is best lacking 4H or 3S
3H - very good H
4C - first or second cue in C with 3 good hearts
4S cue
5D - turbo 1 key card and first round control of D

[shyams]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I posted this hand for two reasons:

1. I felt like this was one hand where a 4-3 (Moysian) fit in hearts offered the best chance of slam.

2. I had a story to tell.
This is what happened at my table (the hand is from a Robot Rebate 55% tournament; at all tables, the human player is South with other seats occupied by bots).

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a. I landed up in a grand slam on a Moysian fit! Once the opening of ♣ appeared, I felt I had excellent chances.
b. When two top spades survive, I was ecstatic. Possibly for the first time in my life I was about to make a grand slam on a Moysian.
c. Alas, at trick 6, East discarded --- revealing a 5-1 ♥ break. Leading inexorably to a 0% score on the board.
d. I guess I could have escaped for down 1, but the score of 0% would not have changed.

* Of the 14 tables in play, 7 reached 6NT by North. None of the Easts led a diamond, which meant 12 tricks were easy (77%).
* Only one table reached the excellent 6♥ and played very well to make it. Their efforts scored a mere 46% on the board. The bidding was identical to what happened at my table except South wisely chose to reply 5NT to North's 5♠ query and the bidding rested in 6♥.
* All others, i.e. excluding myself, were in a game contract.