[kgr]

We play Muiderberg and multi 2D openings:
2H: 5cH - 4+m; weak
2S: 5cS - 4+m; weak
2D: 6cM; weak - or 21-22 HCP
Over 2H/2S we ask minor with 2NT and ask points with 3C:
e.g after 2H-3C:
-> 3D : 5-6 pts
-> 3H : 7-8 pts
-> 3S : 9-10 pts

over 2D we ask major and strength with 2NT.
e.g. after 2D-2NT:
-> 3C: 8-10 pts and H
-> 3D: 8-10 pts and S
-> 3H: 5-7 pts and H
-> 3S: 5-7 pts and S
--------------------------------------------
Over 1NT openings by opps we play multi-Landy. The advantage of this is that it is very similar to our openings (this is important for us!).
(1NT)-DBL: penalty
(1NT)-2C: Majors
(1NT)-2D: weak 6cM
(1NT)-2H: 5cH - 4+m
(1NT)-2S: 5cS - 4+m
--------------------------------------------
Questions:
1. How many pts should I have to do these overcalls and what should my partner have to invite? (assume same method as over opening). Same if 1NT is weak?
2. would you use (1NT)-DBL as penalty; or something else? (or rgb they suggested DBL would show 5+m and 4cM)

more specific question:
IMP
N/NS
(1NT)-2S-(Pass)-

NV Partner overcalls opps strong 1NT with 2S showing 5cS and 4+m.
As suggested by others you included in the system described above that DBL would show 5+m and 4cM.

(You can invite by bidding 2NT and then 3S over partners answer OR you can bid 3C to asks his strength).
Suppose that partner has the worst possible distribution for his 2S:
xxxxx
xx
xx
xxxx
..and all the points in his long suits. What is the minimum HCP you suggest for his 2S overcall?

And what is the minimum hand you need to invistigate for game?

(also posted on rgb)

[Gerben42]

Versus a weak NT the overcalls should be constructive: about 10 - 15 HCP. Although you have to be sure that you have the right loser count here, the defensive values are also needed.

Versus a strong NT the HCPs are not important, only your losers (rule of 2 and 3 and such). Moving towards game must be based on a good fit. Given the 5224 distribution, a minimum 2S would look something like this:

QJTxx
xx
xx
KJTx

Versus weak NT this is not enough.

When to invite for game? If you are too scared of missing game by passing and the 3-level is safe! Games going against a strong NT must be based on shape.

[kgr]

As you see above our overcalls over 1NT are similar to 2-level opening, which make it easier to remember
Is it a bad idea to play the same overcalls over a stong 1C opening (1C showing any 16+)?

[Chamaco]

kgr, on May 25 2005, 07:58 AM, said:

As you see above our overcalls over 1NT are similar to 2-level opening, which make it easier to remember
Is it a bad idea to play the same overcalls over a stong 1C opening (1C showing any 16+)?

The policy vs 1NT opener and vs strong 1C should be different.

Vs 1NT one should be VERY careful of avoiding large penalties, whereas vs strong Club, one should be as aggressive as possible (with a grain of salt watching vulnerability).

The reason is that in the strong NT case, responder knows quite well the shape and range of pard.
Especially, he expects opener to have a low ODR.

In the strong club opening case, instead, opener may have A LOT of hand types, so, quite often, a premptive overcall will be harder to handle.

[Gerben42]

I think you can play this structure also against strong ♣ but at the 1-level, i.e.

Dbl = both majors
1♦ = a major
1M = major + minor
1NT = both minors

Then 2♣ and up natural and annoying

[kgr]

Gerben42, on May 25 2005, 10:03 AM, said:

I think you can play this structure also against strong ♣ but at the 1-level, i.e.

Dbl = both majors
1♦ = a major
1M = major + minor
1NT = both minors

Then 2♣ and up natural and annoying

We do this now the other way around:
1-level overcalls natural
2-level overcalls:
2C: majors
2D: long M
2H: 5cH and 4+m
2S: 5cS and 4+m
... and we could add: 1NT: 5cm + 4cM

Would you prefer this or the other way around (2-level overcalls natural)?

[Gerben42]

I have not given it that much thought as I usually play something completely different against Precision but I guess there won't me much difference to what method is better.

I'd just keep it at the 2-level because that is what you know already.

[Echognome]

Gerben42, on May 25 2005, 05:03 AM, said:

I think you can play this structure also against strong ♣ but at the 1-level, i.e.

Dbl = both majors
1♦ = a major
1M = major + minor
1NT = both minors

Then 2♣ and up natural and annoying

We play exactly this. I can't say it is any better or worse than any other system, but it certainly is easier to remember if it's similar to your weak 2 bids.

You can play 2-level bids as Panama (or Wonder) bids. They show either the suit bid or the other 3-suits. (Yes I know there is some multiplicity in single-suited bids).

By the way, I hate doubling a strong club as it gives the opponents more room. However, when you have the hand with both majors, it's not so bad.

Just my tuppence.

[P_Marlowe]

kgr, on May 25 2005, 06:36 AM, said:

Gerben42, on May 25 2005, 10:03 AM, said:

I think you can play this structure also against strong ♣ but at the 1-level, i.e.

Dbl = both majors
1♦ = a major
1M = major + minor
1NT = both minors

Then 2♣ and up natural and annoying

We do this now the other way around:
1-level overcalls natural
2-level overcalls:
2C: majors
2D: long M
2H: 5cH and 4+m
2S: 5cS and 4+m
... and we could add: 1NT: 5cm + 4cM

Would you prefer this or the other way around (2-level overcalls natural)?

Hi,

I prefer your method for the simple reason, that
if you intervene over a precision 1C, you should
do so on the 2 level. Always.

This works as long, as you are able to find your
best fit on the 2 level as well.
This is true for your 2C, 2D bid.

Regarding your 2H and 2S bid, I would suggest,
that you promise only a 4 card mayor, but a 5
card minor suit. This has the same frequency as the
style you play now, but the advantage of being safer,
because now partner knows, that he will find a 5 card
suit in case he goes searching on the 3 level.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kgr]

Quote

Regarding your 2H and 2S bid, I would suggest,
that you promise only a 4 card mayor, but a 5
card minor suit. This has the same frequency as the
style you play now, but the advantage of being safer,
because now partner knows, that he will find a 5 card
suit in case he goes searching on the 3 level.

I would include the 5 card minor with 4 card major in the 1NT overcall over strong 1C and in the DBL over strong 1NT.
Following this structure has the advantage that overcalls over strong 1NT, strong 1C and our 2 level openings are all very similar.