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Compete at MPs

#1 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 03:19



Match-point Pairs
Opponents play a weak No Trump (12-14)

1) Do you have methods (against a weak NT) to show a 4M5m two-suiter?
2) If not, are you bidding (or doubling?)?
3) If not, what are you leading against 2?
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#2 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 05:45

I would be bidding 2 (spades and another, 5-4 either way, if the other is hearts, they'll be better than the spades) directly over the 1N.
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Posted 2020-January-14, 06:27

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-January-14, 05:45, said:

I would be bidding 2 (spades and another, 5-4 either way, if the other is hearts, they'll be better than the spades) directly over the 1N.



Yes, Asptro and similar defences will allow you to compete. It's more difficult if playing Multi-Landy (say) since 2 is usually defined as 5/4m - not the other way around. In our small club last night, not a single East/West entered the auction ...
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 07:08

View PostTramticket, on 2020-January-14, 06:27, said:

Yes, Asptro and similar defences will allow you to compete. It's more difficult if playing Multi-Landy (say) since 2 is usually defined as 5/4m - not the other way around. In our small club last night, not a single East/West entered the auction ...


The way we play Multi-Landy, double shows an undefined 4M 5m. Of course you might not want to give up penalty against weak NT:
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Posted 2020-January-14, 07:39

View Postpescetom, on 2020-January-14, 07:08, said:

The way we play Multi-Landy, double shows an undefined 4M 5m. Of course you might not want to give up penalty against weak NT:


I think that this might be reasonable against a strong NT. But in my opinion, a penalty double is important against a weak NT. This isn't primarily because you expect to pick up frequent large penalties, but because there are still good chances of game over a weak NT - which means that you want to be able to narrow the range of over-call so that you can bid constructively to game as well as competing for the part-score.
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#6 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 09:11

no I don't have methods to show this, which is obviously unfortunate on this particular hand, but that's just bridge. and I would lead Ace of Diamonds
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 09:51

View PostTramticket, on 2020-January-14, 07:39, said:

I think that this might be reasonable against a strong NT. But in my opinion, a penalty double is important against a weak NT.

Our agreements do actually say that it is off against a weak NT. But that is more about 10-13, 12-14 is so rare here to be undiscussed.
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#8 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 12:00

Against a weak NT, we convert our 5M-4+m 2M overcalls to 5-4 at least either way so we can play a strength double. Yes, it's inefficient, but it's critical to know whose hand it is when it's competitive against a weak NT.

So we claim to play Woolsey against Strong NT, and Multi-Landy against Weak.

And yes, I make it. And I hate it.
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#9 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 12:41

I thought that over a weak NT, X was a penalty-ish top of their range (or more) bid, balanced if min. Isnít it what I have?

In any case, now that responder showed a weak hand with short Cís, I believe we should act, but too bad we didnít do it earlier, partner might have given signs of life or some kind of cooperation.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 14:47

I don't have methods for this shape in most partnerships as double would be penalty, but I am inclined to think we should play our strong-NT defense against 12-14, at least at matchpoints. The penalty double just doesn't come up often enough, and even when it does come up it sometimes backfires as it helps opps to scramble to a better (for them) contract than 1NT undoubled.

With this particular hand it is ok to pass at red/red, though. Three aces and a poor suit suggests defending.

Maybe a penalty double with this hand is not crazy, though. If partner has J and a red king we have good chances in the defense.

I would lead trump ace. Quite likely we need to reduce the number of club ruffs in dummy. Dummy will usually have a singleton clubs in this sequence.
... most of the new ideas I get are pretty "boring", mostly focusing on constructive methods rather than destructive ones --- Kungsgeten
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#11 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2020-January-14, 23:56

Vs weak NT, X is PEN by UPH or 4M5+m by PH. If one did opt to compete here (dubious when vul), could one double 2D for takeout, correcting 2H to 2S to show S+C? A 4-4 spade fit, while unlikely, is still possible when responder holds 3451.

ahydra
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Posted 2020-January-15, 02:26

View Postahydra, on 2020-January-14, 23:56, said:

Vs weak NT, X is PEN by UPH or 4M5+m by PH. If one did opt to compete here (dubious when vul), could one double 2D for takeout, correcting 2H to 2S to show S+C? A 4-4 spade fit, while unlikely, is still possible when responder holds 3451.

ahydra


Would a double of 2 (an artificial bid) be take-out for you? I am not sure of the best use for a second round double, but we haven't specifically discussed it and for us it would therefore show diamonds by default.
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Posted 2020-January-15, 02:33

View Postapollo1201, on 2020-January-14, 12:41, said:

I thought that over a weak NT, X was a penalty-ish top of their range (or more) bid, balanced if min. Isnít it what I have?


For us a double is defined as penalty with 16+ HCPs or 15+ and a good lead. We find it more effective to keep the double up to strength. This 14-count falls a little bit below partner's expectation and partner probably won't pull the double with a 4-count.



View Postapollo1201, on 2020-January-14, 12:41, said:

In any case, now that responder showed a weak hand with short Cís, I believe we should act, but too bad we didnít do it earlier, partner might have given signs of life or some kind of cooperation.


You don't get to bid after responder shows a weak hand with short clubs. You can bid over 2, but most of the time responder will have invitatonal+ values leaving partner with a bust - so this is risky.
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Posted 2020-January-15, 02:46

I found the hand interesting because not a single E/W entered the auction.

Maybe East should protect with: 62 K6543 J2 A963? But this is not so easy when the bidding suggests that west is likely to be short in hearts.

E/W can make 4 or 3. You can get the magic +200 defending. But you will need to organise a couple of ruffs. The best that you can do after starting with the ace of trumps is a switch to hearts and get your heart ruff for one-off.
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#15 User is online   miamijd 

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Posted 2020-January-15, 13:56

There's no good way to show 5m 4M vs. a weak NT. Against a strong NT, I play Woolsey (some call it Multi-Landy), where double shows that, but Woolsey is not good over a weak NT, where it's important to have X show cards.

I would X with this hand, since I probably have a better hand than opener (I have a truly great 14) and also have a good lead vs. 1NTX. Contrary to what another poster said, I don't have a poor suit (I have a decent one), and three Aces doesn't suggest defending (last time I checked, Aces take tricks on offense, too).

I play "system on" after the X, so that partner bids as if I, not opener, opened 1NT. Yes, that often puts the 1NT bidder's partner on opening lead, which is not always what you want, but it also lets you bid with a lot more accuracy. You don't have to worry about partner bidding 2H with four of them, for example (he'll bid 2C Stayman if he wants to find out about majors).

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#16 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2020-January-15, 15:54

View PostTramticket, on 2020-January-15, 02:33, said:

You don't get to bid after responder shows a weak hand with short clubs. You can bid over 2, but most of the time responder will have invitatonal+ values leaving partner with a bust - so this is risky.

Yeah, sorry, I typed in an overcrowded (due to strikes) Parisian bus and my desire for space probably led me to think I could be both after opener and responder.

Now more seriously I canít X now, and canít bid C so pass. Which really emphasizes I should have done something earlier. After all, I have a good lead (just the CJ from p sees me making 6 tricks on my own quite often).
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#17 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-January-15, 16:48

In several of my partnerships, we play(ed) penalty doubles over weak NTs.
I would be happy to double this opening

In other partnerships, we used double to show Spades and another suit.
I would be happy to double this opening.
Alderaan delenda est
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Posted 2020-January-16, 02:03

View Postapollo1201, on 2020-January-15, 15:54, said:

Yeah, sorry, I typed in an overcrowded (due to strikes) Parisian bus and my desire for space probably led me to think I could be both after opener and responder.

Now more seriously I canít X now, and canít bid C so pass. Which really emphasizes I should have done something earlier. After all, I have a good lead (just the CJ from p sees me making 6 tricks on my own quite often).


Are the strikes still continuing? I haven't heard them mentioned on our (British) news recently. I will be in Paris in four weeks time.
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#19 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2020-January-16, 12:43

View PostTramticket, on 2020-January-16, 02:03, said:

Are the strikes still continuing? I haven't heard them mentioned on our (British) news recently. I will be in Paris in four weeks time.

Less followed and national trains are almost ok. But metro lines and buses in Paris are still partially working. Should be over in 4-wks time, I hope.
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