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What is dbl if not a support dbl?

#21 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-September-02, 08:39

View PostTramticket, on 2019-September-02, 06:23, said:

I can't see any reason to emphasise the three-card diamond support. What would you do with:AQJ 976 K9 AQ432? Why not play that this also shows a hand that wants to compete without a suitable bid (the "Strong NT type"?

Are you sure you want to compete with that hand? One difference between the one level and the two level is that partner will compete with basically any hand short in hearts at the one level, but at the two level some of those hands will be too dangerous. So the only hand with game-going strength that might pass is one with heart length and unwilling to bid 1NT, something like xxx. In that case, we have likely avoided a doomed 3NT.

My view would be that the times when the Support Double enables us to compete more effectively versus passing with a strong NT type hand and no stopper leading to a loss is much more frequent. It is a fringe case though so use whatever seems more logical.


View PostTramticket, on 2019-September-02, 06:23, said:

I am not sure how often you will gain with this approach, rather than using the double to show the "strong NT type hand". It is rare to hold hands with clubs + three-card hearts that isn't balanced (either open 1NT or can bid 1NT or double without a stop). With an unbalanced hand we will usually have an alternative bid (rebid a six-card club suit, bid our second four-card minor, pass with four-card spades).

Maybe we will miss a few heart partials, but I suspect that game judgments will be more accurate if we use the double to show extras?

I guess the poster child is a weak 1=3=4=5 hand. Personally I would also prefer to have a 3 card raise available on a weak 1=3=5=4 hand rather than suppressing support to show clubs or making a nebulous double. Some other hand types, such as strong one-suiters, are also made much simpler to handle when a Support Double is available.

As for game judgement, if the double specifically showed 15+ then some game decisions are easier (those based on power), though some others (those based on distribution) become more difficult. Modern bidding theory tends to pay more attention to the latter type as the first type can more easily be handled later. Complicating the matter further though is the double here typically does not promise 15+ and can also be made on hands just wanting to compete. That gets you more mileage out of the call but essentially removes the advantage you are hoping for.

Truth be told, if I had to use a second meaning for double here it would be general takeout/competitive and not a Strong NT Double. It just feels like losing bridge to me to be using such an important call for such a narrow winning range.
(-: Zel :-)
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#22 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-September-02, 09:03

View PostZelandakh, on 2019-September-02, 08:39, said:

Are you sure you want to compete with that hand? One difference between the one level and the two level is that partner will compete with basically any hand short in hearts at the one level, but at the two level some of those hands will be too dangerous.


If you pass with this hand type, the bidding will often be at the two-level (or higher) when LHO raises. So you risk falling victim to the problem that you highlight.


View PostZelandakh, on 2019-September-02, 08:39, said:

I guess the poster child is a weak 1=3=4=5 hand.


Yes, I accept that this is the problem distribution and having a support double in the arsenal would be ideal, holding this shape.

But if I'm honest, this is a problem hand even if they didn't interfere. With a weak hand, I would probably raise on a three-card suit, so I am no worse off.
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