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Not sure if I'd double on any balanced 12 count in passout seat (we balance on midrange plus), since if we faced each other you know the person that passed will stand the double.
no points, sorry he's going to double you
#21
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Posted 2005-May-05, 08:48
Agree entirely. Hence why I runout to begin with and also why I don't play Keri as I value having garbage stayman.
Not sure if I'd double on any balanced 12 count in passout seat (we balance on midrange plus), since if we faced each other you know the person that passed will stand the double.
Not sure if I'd double on any balanced 12 count in passout seat (we balance on midrange plus), since if we faced each other you know the person that passed will stand the double.
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#22 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-May-05, 08:51
Chamaco, on May 5 2005, 09:41 AM, said:
Of course, it makes sense to ask oneself "why should I run before they X, if I am not sure they can x ?".
Fair enough, but some time, trouble can be anticipated: with my current p, we doubled with any balanced 12 in the reopening seat vs any NT range.
Fair enough, but some time, trouble can be anticipated: with my current p, we doubled with any balanced 12 in the reopening seat vs any NT range.
I definitely ask myself why should i run before they X. Is it so clear they both have a penalty double AND will use it? As for doubling with any balanced 12 vs any range...well...if i give my thoughts on that then i will be barred from BBO forums for profanity.
#23
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Posted 2005-May-05, 09:05
The theme of this problem should be: how to avoid the axe. 800 is looming if they are allowed to double. A knowledge of the opponents methods helps. If they don't have a penalty x available, perhaps an immediate pass is best.
But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.
As for getting to the correct strain, I'll be happy if I catch a 2♠ call - I'll be pleased to get to a 4-3 (5-3?) 2♥.
As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit. Further, even if we are playing some silly 3-3 (even a 3-2 is possible) 2♦ contract, it will be difficult for the opponents to double, since these calls are takeout - and they both will have length!
.
But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.
As for getting to the correct strain, I'll be happy if I catch a 2♠ call - I'll be pleased to get to a 4-3 (5-3?) 2♥.
As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit. Further, even if we are playing some silly 3-3 (even a 3-2 is possible) 2♦ contract, it will be difficult for the opponents to double, since these calls are takeout - and they both will have length!
.
"Phil" on BBO
#24
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Posted 2005-May-05, 09:09
pclayton, on May 5 2005, 03:05 PM, said:
The theme of this problem should be: how to avoid the axe. 800 is looming if they are allowed to double. A knowledge of the opponents methods helps. If they don't have a penalty x available, perhaps an immediate pass is best.
But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.
.................
As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit.
But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.
.................
As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit.
Ditto :-)
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#25
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Posted 2005-May-05, 09:20
Pass, and I pass also, in case the opponents
double 1NT for penalty and this comes back.
Hopefully I play a long match against them,
because they will loose with this agreement more,
than they will gain on this hand.
With kind regards
Marlowe
double 1NT for penalty and this comes back.
Hopefully I play a long match against them,
because they will loose with this agreement more,
than they will gain on this hand.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#26
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Posted 2005-May-05, 11:16
Just pass.
I know, my favorite partner will collect 10 tricks and complain we missed another cold game, but no bid for now.
I know, my favorite partner will collect 10 tricks and complain we missed another cold game, but no bid for now.
#27
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Posted 2005-May-05, 11:30
What actually happened on this hand was that both tables played in 1NT doubled. We went for 1100, whereas declarer at the other table managed to get out for 200, which goes to show that my choice of bid was not the only point of interest on the hand ...
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
#28
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Posted 2005-May-05, 11:52
david_c, on May 5 2005, 12:30 PM, said:
What actually happened on this hand was that both tables played in 1NT doubled. We went for 1100, whereas declarer at the other table managed to get out for 200, which goes to show that my choice of bid was not the only point of interest on the hand ...
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
Note if we pass then p could have pulled to 2d with a decent suit, what happens then is conjecture.
My guess is against true world class players they may have guessed right to defend 1nt so let's run to 2D.
#29
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Posted 2005-May-05, 13:01
david_c, on May 5 2005, 09:30 AM, said:
What actually happened on this hand was that both tables played in 1NT doubled. We went for 1100, whereas declarer at the other table managed to get out for 200, which goes to show that my choice of bid was not the only point of interest on the hand ...
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
At the time, I was kicking myself for not trying Stayman. It does seem to be the most likely way to avoid a double. And, as it happens, it would have worked nicely on this hand (partner turned up with five diamonds).
And, yes, nearly everyone here in the UK plays double of 1NT for penalties, even against a strong no-trump. Until recently the system regulations forced us to play double as penalties in most competitions. This was changed for 4th seat a few years ago, and was changed for 2nd seat last month, but most people either don't know or don't care.
Was the other declarer doubled in 2♦ (-1?) or was it untouched and -2?
"Phil" on BBO
#30 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-May-05, 15:38
both were in 1N, one guy just played it better. Agree wtih Mike, depending on your partners hand he might have tried 2D. I still don't see how you would "know" you are going to get Xed in 1N, and how you would "know" if they are able to X you in 1N your pard can't bid a 5 card suit, and how you would "know" they wont be able to X you in whatever you get to by bidding stayman and how you "know" this would be a better contract. Alot of things have to happen for bidding stayman to be right.
#31
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Posted 2005-May-08, 00:36
Almost yarborough!
And it's balanced!
I'll pass,pass;
Or pass,pass.
And it's balanced!
I'll pass,pass;
Or pass,pass.
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#32
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Posted 2005-May-11, 07:31
Who was your partner? It wasn't me, since I never go for -1100 any more.
#33
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Posted 2005-May-11, 08:02
NV at matchpoints I might try 3NT. I'm not sure I could face my team-mates at IMPs. The disciplined action is clearly to pass 1NT - LHO hasn't doubled yet.
Once 1NT doubled has been passed round to me I think it's close between pass and redouble. My usual partner will redouble 1NT to show a 5 (or 6 card suit), once I know he doesn't have one I will probably stick in 1NT as it's often harder to defend than two of a suit.
It does depend slightly on opponents. Some people who play double of 1NT as penalties also play double of Stayman or a transfer as showing a hand that would have doubled 1NT. Against them I definitely pass. If they play double as lead-directing I might try either garbage stayman or a transfer to spades (RHO might bid hearts after LHO's double).
As for the people being rude about the penalty double, I don't think it's a clear-cut as you are saying. In fact, I think it is definitely right to play double of a 3rd in NV 1NT opening as penalties as it is so frequently psyched.
Once 1NT doubled has been passed round to me I think it's close between pass and redouble. My usual partner will redouble 1NT to show a 5 (or 6 card suit), once I know he doesn't have one I will probably stick in 1NT as it's often harder to defend than two of a suit.
It does depend slightly on opponents. Some people who play double of 1NT as penalties also play double of Stayman or a transfer as showing a hand that would have doubled 1NT. Against them I definitely pass. If they play double as lead-directing I might try either garbage stayman or a transfer to spades (RHO might bid hearts after LHO's double).
As for the people being rude about the penalty double, I don't think it's a clear-cut as you are saying. In fact, I think it is definitely right to play double of a 3rd in NV 1NT opening as penalties as it is so frequently psyched.
#34
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Posted 2005-May-11, 08:21
Gee, only 12 cards!
Partner: Oops, I have 14.
Throwing all cards in the middle of the table, destroying all evidence.
I pass.
Partner: Oops, I have 14.
Throwing all cards in the middle of the table, destroying all evidence.
I pass.
#35
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Posted 2005-May-11, 08:31
mr1303, on May 11 2005, 02:31 PM, said:
Who was your partner? It wasn't me, since I never go for -1100 any more.
Let me guess - it hasn't happened since we last played together Mark?
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Posted 2005-May-11, 10:27
mr1303, on May 11 2005, 08:31 AM, said:
Who was your partner? It wasn't me, since I never go for -1100 any more.
Dave McDouall (?sp). This was when I was filling in for you, who was due to be filling in for John Holland. I suppose the sight of me sitting across the table rather than John H would be enough to make anyone go for -1100 ...