[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

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This was an opponent's problem, but I felt it interesting enough to post. The auction goes:

(2♣)(1) - P - (3♠) - ?

(1) Weak with 4/4 or better in the majors

Your bid?

[the hog]

3N could be, but is unlikely to be right. I bid 5C.

[pclayton]

On the theory of playing pard for one useful card, I shoot 6♣.

[shoeless]

4s - first round control pard

[the hog]

Phil, doesn't he need 2 useful cards to make 6 here?

Shoeless, even if this shows 1st round control, which it wouldn't in any partnership I play, what is your poor partner to do with say
xx
xxx
Qxxxxx
Ax

He will bid 5D and then you are overboard.

[whereagles]

Depends on the style you play. In Robson/Segal style, I would bid a straight 5C. Playing with other conventions I might try double + 5C, hoping pard can find a raise to 6 on a decent hand.

[bearmum]

5♣

[shoeless]

Totally tongue in cheek - sorry.

[Echognome]

This hand had a great touch of irony. Our opponent made the blind stab of 4♣ which floated. Partner lead the A♥, and we collected two aces and a heart ruff. Tick.

At the other table, our teammates got to open this hand. They opened a strong club, heard a 1♥ overcall passed back to them and this hand bid a simple 3NT. LHO now leads spade and this was one down.

The irony was that at our table, partner opened his preempt out of turn! I was the only to realize this, so we had a laugh after the hands. Partner's preempt talked them out of a non-making game.

[Fluffy]

Agree with Ron, there are 3 cards missing, and a hard to find but possible heart ruff as well. 5♣ seems enough but would like a way to make partner know we have that uch strenght, maybe 4♥?, partner rates to have enogh lenght on the suit to know it won't be natural.

Anyway on the real world I would bid jsut 5♣.

[beatrix45]

First things first. My info on this hand comes from the opponents bidding, so I need to find out as much as I can about what their bids meant. It sounds like the 2♣ opener has a hand similar to a Michaels cue bid - usually 5-5, but sometimes 4-5 or even 5-4 but never 4-4 in the majors. If this is the case, then what does 3♠ mean? Is it a blocking bid or is it 'constructive', possibly invitational to game? What would a 2♦ or 2NT response have meant? If 3♠ invited, then odds on partner's having one or more of the three key cards - ♣ ace, ♥ ace or ♦ king is reduced. So, my first move would be to query first about LHO's and then about RHO's bids.

My hand is a brick for 9 tricks in clubs, and it will take 10 tricks opposite some hands with no honours at all. The problem is two natural heart losers or a heart ruff, i.e. when partner has three or four small hearts or less than three clubs for me to ruff with. According to probability calculations, this will occur about 50% of the time.

If partner has no key cards, we have 9 or 10 tricks, and bidding 4♣ right now is enough. They might even make 4♠ (in which case 5♣ doubled down one may be a good save), but everything would have to be perfect for both them and us for this to be the case.

If partner has one key card, we ought to have a better than even shot at making 5♣ - almost 100% if it is the ♥ ace or the ♦ king + the ♦ queen, and around 50-50 in the remaining cases (ace third of clubs and short hearts are very good, long hearts w/o the ten are very bad). Bidding 4♣ now likely won't get us to 5♣ (partner will probably pass); double should, and 5♣ does it perforce.

If partner has two key cards, she ought to raise 4♣ to 5♣.

Soooo, what is the percentage bid? Double, 4♣ or 5♣???

Against good players who consider 3♠ to be 'a constructive raise' (i.e. typically four spades and 5 to 10 HCP), I would lean toward 4♣. Partner owes me a raise to five with an ace + the ♦ king (or two aces) and three trumps, or with a LAW hand with four or five clubs. Opposite these hands 5♣ should be a good spot.

I only lose vis a vis an immediate 5♣ bid on the hands where pard has one key card and 5♣ makes (50-60% of such cases), and those few hands where she has no key cards, the opponents bid and can make 4♠, and 5♣ is only down one.

Admittedly, 4♣ doesn't put max pressure on the opponents, but I AM looking at half the high cards in the deck, so how important can preemption be? If this does turn out to be a wild melee where we have 10 or 11 clubs, and they have 10 ro 11 spades; the fun is just starting and 4♣ is a good first step in terms of bringing partner into the picture.

If the 3♠ bid was a more of a bar bid based on spade length and little else, then, I think, 5 ♣ may be the best call. Chances of catching partner with one or more key cards is better, and it does force the opponents make the last decision - always a good idea. Bidding 5♣ IS taking a stand and masterminding the hand, but why not?

I don't see the logic of making a double here. Of course, it could work out; but bidding room is scarce, I certainly don't want to play in diamonds, and my hand is vastly more suited to play the hand than to defend. It has four quick tricks, but ten playing tricks. I need to bid my suit.

[Echognome]

Beatrix - Since we were "opponents" I can tell you the methods exactly. 2♣ showed 4-4 or better in the majors and weak. (allowed in England) 3♠ was blocking. 2NT is a strong enquiry.

What might not be clear here is the vulnerability as North opened out of turn. 3♠ was made at Red vs. White, so even though it's blocking, it's not going to be insane. At White vs. Red, West might be having to find a bid over 4♠.

[beatrix45]

Echognome, on Apr 26 2005, 06:15 PM, said:

2♣ showed 4-4 or better in the majors and weak.

Would this ever show just four cards in each major at adverse vul?

[cf_John0]

My Pd is a blank hand,I'll bid 4C,Pass, or Dbl their 4S/4H.

[Echognome]

beatrix45, on Apr 26 2005, 08:34 PM, said:

Would this ever show just four cards in each major at adverse vul?

It's not too likely at teams. It would depend on how frisky partner felt and the quality of his suits (and perhaps the quality of the opponents). Give him say ♠KQJx ♥QJ10x ♦x ♣109xx and it would be an easy 2♣ bid. He was actually 45 in the majors on this particular hand.

[pclayton]

The_Hog, on Apr 24 2005, 10:00 PM, said:

Phil, doesn't he need 2 useful cards to make 6 here?

Shoeless, even if this shows 1st round control, which it wouldn't in any partnership I play, what is your poor partner to do with say
xx
xxx
Qxxxxx
Ax

He will bid 5D and then you are overboard.

It depends on his round suit lengths - maybe, maybe not.

[beatrix45]

Thanks for the clarification. The opponents are vul and we are not. I initially thought it was the other way around. The difference in the vulnerability changes the situation considerably because if I bid 4♣ partner will not take it NEARLY as seriously. She might not raise with two of the three key cards.

I still don't like a double for all the same reasons previously stated. So, mastermind I must, 5♣ it is.

[HeartA]

5C for me.

[luis]

I'd double and bid 5c then as a way to show pd that I'm happy to hear 6 from him if he has useful cards.
A direct 5c in contrast would be expecting some useful cards to make so pd won't go to 6 if he has them.