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Here is a hand I had more than a year ago:
White vs Red.
Ax
J9xxxx
Jxx
xx
LHO opens 1H, partner doubles, RHO passes. What now?
If you bid 1NT then LHO will bid 2D, partner will double, and RHO bids 2H. Would you double this?
Old hand
#1
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Posted 2005-April-26, 12:33
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#2
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Posted 2005-April-26, 13:33
Hannie, on Apr 26 2005, 01:33 PM, said:
Here is a hand I had more than a year ago:
White vs Red.
Ax
J9xxxx
Jxx
xx
LHO opens 1H, partner doubles, RHO passes. What now?
If you bid 1NT then LHO will bid 2D, partner will double, and RHO bids 2H. Would you double this?
White vs Red.
Ax
J9xxxx
Jxx
xx
LHO opens 1H, partner doubles, RHO passes. What now?
If you bid 1NT then LHO will bid 2D, partner will double, and RHO bids 2H. Would you double this?
1)pass
2)x
3) not the first time or last the opp make doubled contract. I try to follow Larry Cohen/Bergen bidding philosophy of going out of the way to not make takeout doubles on a void if at all possible, hopefully our partner is playing the same. Perhaps this time P had 4045 and hated the 2club overcall option.
#3 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-26, 13:50
1N. No I will not X 2H. I would consider passing this t/o X a gross error, and Xing 2H even to be an error.
#4
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Posted 2005-April-26, 14:28
1NT
--Ben--
#5
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Posted 2005-April-26, 14:49
1NT over pd's x. Over rho's 2H, I might dbl, or pass, depending on scoring and status of match (lossing, winning, or gamble on swing).
Senshu
#6
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Posted 2005-April-26, 17:22
what does partner's double of diamonds say (yeah, i'd bid 1nt over his first x)? ... can he have a black 2 suiter? no matter what he has, his 2nd double tells me he has a minimum of 16 hcp and could have more... i think his x of 2d is penalty... i'd x 2h, even having read justin saying it's an error... maybe it is, maybe it isn't... if it is, it won't be the last one i make
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#7
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Posted 2005-April-26, 18:57
Can't pass as the H are not good enough. Can't bid 1NT - lacking a bit of stuffing. Can't bid 1S - I only have 2 and anyway, I don't want to excite partner. The only option left is 2D.
Had the bidding gone the way you describe, no, I would not X 2H. Partner looks like he has a void and this may very well make.
Had the bidding gone the way you describe, no, I would not X 2H. Partner looks like he has a void and this may very well make.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#8
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Posted 2005-April-27, 03:58
2D for me as well.
#9
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Posted 2005-April-27, 04:14
1) 1NT.
2) X, hopefully Partners 2nd double promised
additional strength
With kind regards
Marlowe
2) X, hopefully Partners 2nd double promised
additional strength
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#10
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Posted 2005-April-27, 04:50
P_Marlowe, on Apr 27 2005, 05:14 AM, said:
1) 1NT.
2) X, hopefully Partners 2nd double promised
additional strength
With kind regards
Marlowe
2) X, hopefully Partners 2nd double promised
additional strength
With kind regards
Marlowe
Same for me !
2♦ on a 3 cards suit is not for me
Alain
Alain
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Posted 2005-April-27, 06:05
Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 07:50 PM, said:
1N. No I will not X 2H. I would consider passing this t/o X a gross error, and Xing 2H even to be an error.
Why do you (strongly) prefer 1NT over Pass?
Opps have max. a 7-card fit in H. I would think that if you can make 1NT then opps will not be able to make 1H.
NV vs V I would pass this.
Any explanation of why 1NT is better then pass is appreciated.
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#12
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Posted 2005-April-27, 07:51
(1♥)-X-pass-2♦ to me, and no, I wouldn't double anything below 4♥.
#13 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-27, 08:04
kgr, on Apr 27 2005, 07:05 AM, said:
Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 07:50 PM, said:
1N. No I will not X 2H. I would consider passing this t/o X a gross error, and Xing 2H even to be an error.
Why do you (strongly) prefer 1NT over Pass?
Opps have max. a 7-card fit in H. I would think that if you can make 1NT then opps will not be able to make 1H.
NV vs V I would pass this.
Any explanation of why 1NT is better then pass is appreciated.
Well, if partner is void in trumps then its totally hopeless. Other than the 9 we have no trump spots. Partner can never even lead a trump. Declarer will score at least the 5 trumps in his hand plus his side suit winners. If partner is void thats also bad since he could be lighter than normal to X 1H. Even if declarer is in a 5-1 fit, unless partner has the stiff ten or queen, he will again likely score his 5 trumps plus his side suit winners. we are 3-2-2 in the side suits which is very bad as he can strip our side suit cards and then when partner's hand is up we have to ruff his winners then lead trumps into dummy. I wouldn't consider making 3 unlikely (fluffy indicated this by saying he wouldn't X anything but 4H). so if they are white thats -380, if theyre red -580. yikes. 1N however may make even when 1H X is making 3 (heart blockage). Even if it goes down 1 or 2, I don't really care.
Now, when it goes 2D X 2H doubling is more reasonable but now we KNOW partner is void. We also know dummy is short in diamonds. We also know our 3 card suit is diamonds. So declarer could very likely score a ruff on this hand in the short hand, to go with his 5 trump tricks and just needs 2 side suit winners. Worse we're doubling into game this time.
#14
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Posted 2005-April-27, 08:33
Given the above, I would like to see more discussion on the plus and minus of not making takeout doubles with a void. Yes, we all know risk of missing 44 spades on this hand.
1) Can we still find it often enough with some overcall?
2) Do we gain enough by knowing p is 4144?
3) Do we just lose too much by partner not being able to show 4045 type hands that we cannot solve otherwise?
1) Can we still find it often enough with some overcall?
2) Do we gain enough by knowing p is 4144?
3) Do we just lose too much by partner not being able to show 4045 type hands that we cannot solve otherwise?
#15
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Posted 2005-April-27, 09:02
2♦ for me first.
Then No, I won't double 2h.
Then No, I won't double 2h.
The legend of the black octogon.
#16 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-27, 09:08
mike777, on Apr 27 2005, 09:33 AM, said:
Given the above, I would like to see more discussion on the plus and minus of not making takeout doubles with a void. Yes, we all know risk of missing 44 spades on this hand.
1) Can we still find it often enough with some overcall?
2) Do we gain enough by knowing p is 4144?
3) Do we just lose too much by partner not being able to show 4045 type hands that we cannot solve otherwise?
1) Can we still find it often enough with some overcall?
2) Do we gain enough by knowing p is 4144?
3) Do we just lose too much by partner not being able to show 4045 type hands that we cannot solve otherwise?
I would consider not Xing with a hand like KQxx --- KQxx Qxxxx insane. There are many hands like this. I think the gains FAR outweigh the loss when you can X with 40(45). Afterall what is a better description of the hand, a 3 suiter with short hearts or a hand with clubs? The gain by not Xing with a void is minimal as partner will not pass a 1 level X without massive trumps. I would be nervous Xing with that hand at the 3 level as pard will pass when its wrong sometimes, but its a game of percentages, which action rates to get you to the top spot and X is clearly it even if you will suffer the occasional bad result.
#17
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Posted 2005-April-27, 09:43
One must avoid a reflex pass with hands like this.
I like 1N myself and pull 2♣ to 2♦.
I'll play 2H x'd if pard makes an action double over LHO's continuation. If LHO bids 2H and pard passes, I'll pass too.
I like 1N myself and pull 2♣ to 2♦.
I'll play 2H x'd if pard makes an action double over LHO's continuation. If LHO bids 2H and pard passes, I'll pass too.
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Posted 2005-April-27, 13:13
initially respond 1NT- not into bidding 2 or 3-card suits when there is viable option even if a lesser lie. I like to win the race to 1NT anyway if possible.
pass 2 hearts, maybe I am now headed for a plus score on this hand. No need to give opener any more of a blueprint of the hands than already available. hope opener isn't cross-ruffing a whole bunch of tricks before performing some endplay. (BTW, can I slip P one of my hearts under the table or by Fedex?) If partner gives the cube (dbls) a 3rd time, I defend. Not sure where tricks are coming from on offense without P showing some source of tricks like a GOSH- hand or something: hand sounds like a blatant misfit. I know, wrong again- my life script at the bridge table.
(BTW: a pass of 1HX should show something like 6 solid hearts such as QJT9xx and some other cards. It says to partner "LEAD TRUMPS" if possible, I got you covered!)
pass 2 hearts, maybe I am now headed for a plus score on this hand. No need to give opener any more of a blueprint of the hands than already available. hope opener isn't cross-ruffing a whole bunch of tricks before performing some endplay. (BTW, can I slip P one of my hearts under the table or by Fedex?) If partner gives the cube (dbls) a 3rd time, I defend. Not sure where tricks are coming from on offense without P showing some source of tricks like a GOSH- hand or something: hand sounds like a blatant misfit. I know, wrong again- my life script at the bridge table.
(BTW: a pass of 1HX should show something like 6 solid hearts such as QJT9xx and some other cards. It says to partner "LEAD TRUMPS" if possible, I got you covered!)
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#19 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-27, 13:38
On the point of 1N vs 2D, I think 1N is more practical. I'm about a point light but at least I won't land in a ridiculous contract.
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Posted 2005-April-27, 16:07
Jlall, on Apr 27 2005, 02:04 PM, said:
kgr, on Apr 27 2005, 07:05 AM, said:
Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 07:50 PM, said:
1N. No I will not X 2H. I would consider passing this t/o X a gross error
Why do you (strongly) prefer 1NT over Pass?
Well, if partner is void in trumps then its totall<........snip......... >it winners. Worse we're doubling into game this time.
Thanks JLall. Interesting and you convinced me.
One more question: Is it an automatic pass (eg. no pass with 6 bad trumps) or a Pass from reasoning?
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