Precision and CC Wei What exactly is Precision?
#1
Posted 2017-September-02, 03:09
Since then many strong club systems have come to call themselves Precision. Most of them excellent improvements on the original. But let us not ignore what he gave us and how clever it was. It simplified what was previously the more complicated Italian Blue Club and started thousands, including myself playing Precision all over the world.
Now few people play precision online anymore, and that is mainly because there is no longer a standard as to exactly what Precision is. Dont forget what the Precision team achieved playing it exactly the Wei way.
However in contradiction I have offered an enhancement with the multi 2 diamonds, an idea that has been around for years and used a lot. I also promote bringing in some modern enhancements like transfers to 1 club openings, Delta and Omega bids to bring it up to date. With these enhancements I call it Control Precision (see feed) and try to set standards that any 2 players can abide by.
Well done Mr. Wei I will always love your system, the only one we can truly call Precision and 1 club will always be 16+.
#2
Posted 2017-September-02, 03:44
Bermy, on 2017-September-02, 03:09, said:
Or maybe Precision is like the ship of Theseus.
#3
Posted 2017-September-02, 06:04
nullve, on 2017-September-02, 03:44, said:
Or maybe Precision is just a redrawn dynamic of the Vanderbilt Club system (c.1930s) that, surprise, surprise, also has a 1♣ opener as 16+
p.s. Vanderbilt also 'invented' weak major two bids too
#4
Posted 2017-September-02, 06:33
However, the opening bid of 2♦ was the strong Game Forcing bid in the system. Weak two bids in the majors were added in 1969. Before then, 2♥ & 2♠ were intermediate, less than16 hcp, but not long enough for a four bid, and two strong for a one bid.
1♦ was the "loose" or prepared diamond opening bid.
1♣ was 16-22 hcp, 1NT was 13-15 and 2NT was 21-22.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
#6
Posted 2017-September-02, 11:33
- 1♣ = ART 16+ with 1♦ negative. 5+ card suit positives with 8+.
- 1♦ = ART 10-15 "Loose Diamond" 2+ ♦s.
- 1M = NAT 10-15. 5+ cards.
- 1N = BAL 13-15
- 2B = NAT 12-15
Systems evolve with time. e.g. compare modern 2/1 with older versions.
#7
Posted 2017-September-02, 18:36
steve2005, on 2017-September-02, 07:13, said:
One could play Precision as in the ancient Goren book. Bidding is crude by modern standards but would be an improvement on many people's methods.
Meck lite is a reasonable standard if you want something up-to-date and standard.
CC Wei was a bidding theorist, he never actually even played.
He didn’t conceive the strong club, he merely simplified it so it could be played by both world champions and club players. He explained the importance if being exact with your HCP and shape and how to count their values separately. He called it Precision because he wanted it to be precise. He then got his team to learn it and play it properly, until unknown team started knocking everybody out of the Bermuda Bowl. Strong Club was not new back then, Belladonna and Gorrozo had been winning for years, does anybody play the Blue Club anymore? Goren and Reese other great theorists showed us how to play Precision simply, with simple approach methods without having to learn those complicated asking bids.
Now club players could learn and play the strong club quickly, and if they wanted to explore the complicated avenues of asking bids, they could. Partnerships evolved all around the world, all adding to the original creation, but really what they were doing by making too many changes was breaking down what was essentially a carefully planned and structured universal language, capable of fitting every conceivable hand to its bid. Their results itself proved it worked.
Bidding theory today is as complicated now as it was back then, however has everybody forgotten that bidding must work for club players as well as champions if one wants to develop a system properly. Unlike established partnership, club players need a system where 2 players can quickly agree on a basic system and which conventions are on and off and get on with playing. Standards need to be set. Goren, Reese, Culbertson and Wei set these standards.
There is nothing crude in the old methods. They work and they are solid and are easy to learn for newer players. You sound like a budding musician who ignores the masters. Modern theorists are too result driven, and one has too much choice. It makes strong club impossible to play.
Today on BBO all we are left with is 2/1 only, even then many prefer basic SAYC. From what I have seen on Gib after 20 years of trying, it is going absolutely nowhere. Gib bidding is not programed by any bidding theorists whatsoever; none of it makes any sense to the average bridge player. Some of the bidding logic is at the point where the program is making total fool of itself all over the world, you have read some of my other feeds on that. Must I say most would leave the table if anyone bid with them the way Gib does.
We do not need or want another standard thank you. I am setting my standard and it is high. I’m trying to promote a return to Precision from all those players out there who want to try something different. Perhaps you should go read Goren Reese and Wei too and go see who the masters learned from.
#8
Posted 2017-September-02, 19:57
As a matter of fact, C.C. Wei played Precision with Ron Anderson as described in his book, Match Point Precision, 1975. He details an 83% game they had at a New York Winter Regional in 1974 before he published his book mentioned above.
C.C. also won the Puerto Rico Open pairs 1970, Swiss Teams 1972, Mid-Atlantic Summer Swiss 1972, Metropolitan Open Pairs 1974.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
#9
Posted 2017-September-09, 14:11
I really think more should try Precision these days, yes it maybe a little old fashioned, however it is so universal, and in China almost everyone plays it. And it is so different. You will see, at the bridge tournaments, suddenly your results improve. I know. I do play a lot with them and they stick to CC Wei standards too. I think it’s the universal language that we need to play strong club.
Learning those sequences does give you an advantage, but if one starts deviating away from Wei one has to find a permanent partner, losing an important ingredient in the social structure of bridge, that any two players can get together and play. That is what I mean by standards. Wei sets them for us in Precision.
#10
Posted 2017-September-09, 14:32
012123? Can any Precision player out there tell what sequence that represents?
#11
Posted 2017-September-09, 15:21
I would interpret the unqualified term "Precision" as meaning 1♣ SAF as the only unlimited opening, combined with five card major openings. A system which scraps Wei's 2♦ and opens 1♥ with exactly 4=4=1=4 is still "Precision": the deviation from five card majors is so infrequent partner can disregard it. OTOH, I would not regard the System Sabine Auken plays (frequent four card major openings) as "Precision", though she has a different take on it and does call her system "Precision". [Sabine's system is an excellent system, I am only discussing terminology.] I would not describe Vanderbilt, Schenken, Blue Team, or Nottingham Club as "Precision" though there are undeniable similarities, especially in the last case.
I would call a precision system essentially the same as Wei wrote about "Wei Precision."
#12
Posted 2017-September-10, 00:06
mikestar13, on 2017-September-09, 15:21, said:
I would interpret the unqualified term "Precision" as meaning 1♣ SAF as the only unlimited opening, combined with five card major openings. A system which scraps Wei's 2♦ and opens 1♥ with exactly 4=4=1=4 is still "Precision": the deviation from five card majors is so infrequent partner can disregard it. OTOH, I would not regard the System Sabine Auken plays (frequent four card major openings) as "Precision", though she has a different take on it and does call her system "Precision". [Sabine's system is an excellent system, I am only discussing terminology.] I would not describe Vanderbilt, Schenken, Blue Team, or Nottingham Club as "Precision" though there are undeniable similarities, especially in the last case.
I would call a precision system essentially the same as Wei wrote about "Wei Precision."
When I wake up on a Sunday morning, I read the bridge first, then the football of course, then the politics or science, never the business section, mind you.
Today it was politics first, hmmmmmm
Peeeee.....Bang. Do we ever need friends in China right now. Bridge can play its role. I often wonder why they called our game "bridge"
Precision is a standard and now has been set by Wei because it has become the international language of strong club systems. Wei Precision is the starting point from which you make all your variations. It is the first language, the source. That is how they play it in China, and if you can communicate with the Chinese with such an international language, we will can then find partnerships and variations to our language to all of our mutual benefit. Thank you Mr Wei
#13
Posted 2021-January-27, 18:50
Sabine and Daniela von Arnim and their partners, Pony Nehmert and Andrea Rauscheid (Reim) won the 2001 (1995 also) Venice Cup playing their version of a Strong Club with canapé.
I have played Sabine's System and modified it and called it C3 - Copious Canapé Club. I played against her and Roy in the Memphis NABC in 2019 and she autographed my copy of I Love This Game. I also played against Zia in the same pair game.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
#14
Posted 2021-January-27, 19:07
But among pairs who are literate on bidding theory, I think "Precision" is defined as
1♣ = strong artificial, contains most or all strong hands
1M = 11-15 or thereabouts, probably 5-card majors although some might bid a 4-card major on occasion. Certainly not canape. Auken/Arnim didn't call their system "Precision"
1NT = natural, whatever range
2♣ = natural 11-15 or thereabouts, may or may not promise 6
I don't think you can make any assumptions about the response structures. People who play a Moscito-like GF 1♦ response to the 1♣ opening, for example, probably still call their system "Precision".
#15
Posted 2021-January-27, 19:33
#16
Posted 2021-January-27, 20:42
helene_t, on 2021-January-27, 19:07, said:
I don't think you can make any assumptions about the response structures. People who play a Moscito-like GF 1♦ response to the 1♣ opening, for example, probably still call their system "Precision".
Think that might offend some Moscito players . We always labelled the various (non-Moscito) variants as a strong ♣ system given that they were sufficiently different from the 1♦ = 2+, etc Precision.
#17
Posted 2021-January-27, 23:24
helene_t, on 2021-January-27, 19:07, said:
Certainly my opponents in a weekly team game do, and they regularly play internationally.
I even called it Precision when we shoved the 4414 hands into 1H in another partnership, although we did start discussing the need for other names about that point.
#19
Posted 2021-January-28, 08:54
Cyberyeti, on 2021-January-28, 05:22, said:
Yes, TAB responses - Trump Asking Bid for top honors and length.
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)
Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
#20
Posted 2021-January-28, 09:01
But I'll let the actual players who have or want to play it have the final word on where the border is.