[gwnn]

AKxxxxx
-
AKx
KQx

1H-x-3H-x
p-?

what are your agreements here? what do you bid?

[ONEferBRID]

2nd DBL = Responsive showing both minors.

Bid 4H! = partner, you pick the minor.

Edit: Then again, 4S may fare better opposite a stiff.

[gwnn]

If you bid 4H partner bids 5C.

[hrothgar]

ONEferBRID, on Jun 24 2010, 04:36 PM, said:

2nd DBL = Responsive showing both minors.

Bid 4H! = partner, you pick the minor.

Are you on crack?

Alternatively, do you like playing a 4-3 fit at the five level when you had a 6-2 Spade fit available?

I think that only serious consideration is what is shown by 3♠ as opposed to 4♠

[bluecalm]

Difficult hand. Partner is likely 1-3-(5-4). We can be cold for grand in a minor (for example x xxx xxxx AJTxx is decent grand but it's not even close to dbl).

I wonder what various bids mean here. Intuitively:

3NT = to play
4♣/4♦ = not forcing
4♥ = some strong hand but no idea if we can't have 7 top spades for that for example (how else set spades ?)
4♠ = to play obviously
4NT = pick a minor (nothing else seems to be logical)

It seems that our choice is between 4♥ and 4NT. I don't see how to describe our hand here. If we bid 4♥ and then 5♥ partner still won't see the grand.
At the table I think I can bid 4♥ and then just bash 7 in a minor partner chooses. He is more likely to have A♣ than A♥ afterall.

Gonna quiz my pd for various sequencies here.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Are you on crack?

Alternatively, do you like playing a 4-3 fit at the five level when you had a 6-2 Spade fit available?

I think patner will bid 4♠ with some 2-3-4-4 hand after our 4♥.

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Jun 24 2010, 07:55 AM, said:

AKxxxxx
-
AKx
KQx

1H-x-3H-x
p-?

what are your agreements here? what do you bid?

If I have to guess I guess 6♠

[ONEferBRID]

gwnn, on Jun 24 2010, 08:38 AM, said:

If you bid 4H partner bids 5C.

5H!

[hanp]

Alright, people have gone completely nuts in this thread.

Hrothgar, 3S is just NF with typically only 4 spades and 4S is also a massive underbid. Also, for a change we have 13 cards, not 12.

Bluecalm, why on earth would partner bid 4S on a doubleton???

Pooltuna, 6S seems as good a guess as anything, but fortunately we don't have to guess immadiately. I think that 4H is clear as a start, sometimes partner will surprise us by bidding 4S (which wouldn't be a doubleton!).

After hearing 5C from partner I think I would also bid 5H but this worries me as I think it shows club support. If partner now bids 6C, I don't think that shows more or better clubs so I think we'll have to bid 6S over it. 7C though we can comfortably pass, but partner is unlikely to bid it. I think that 5S would be a cuebid and therefore a singleton. Then maybe we should 7C, Ace-sixth of clubs would make it a very good grand. After 5NT I am not sure what to bid.

[Cascade]

I think 3♠ is forcing.

[y66]

Advancer's double showed the minors. 5H for me.

[hrothgar]

Cascade, on Jun 24 2010, 05:36 PM, said:

I think 3♠ is forcing.

Same

[Phil]

delete

[Phil]

hanp, on Jun 24 2010, 09:27 AM, said:

Alright, people have gone completely nuts in this thread.

Hrothgar, 3S is just NF with typically only 4 spades and 4S is also a massive underbid. Also, for a change we have 13 cards, not 12.

Bluecalm, why on earth would partner bid 4S on a doubleton???

Pooltuna, 6S seems as good a guess as anything, but fortunately we don't have to guess immadiately. I think that 4H is clear as a start, sometimes partner will surprise us by bidding 4S (which wouldn't be a doubleton!).

After hearing 5C from partner I think I would also bid 5H but this worries me as I think it shows club support. If partner now bids 6C, I don't think that shows more or better clubs so I think we'll have to bid 6S over it. 7C though we can comfortably pass, but partner is unlikely to bid it. I think that 5S would be a cuebid and therefore a singleton. Then maybe we should 7C, Ace-sixth of clubs would make it a very good grand. After 5NT I am not sure what to bid.

Misread Han's comment before.

I don't think 5♥ is necessary. Don't you think 5♠ is forcing?

Furthermore, what is this ghetto logic about a double of 3♥ showing the minors?

[mikeh]

There are good arguments for playing 3♠ as forcing, since most routine 5143/5134 hands would start with 1♠. If we have the agreement that partner's double denies 4♠, then 3♠ should deliver the hand type that was always planning on doubling then spades....prototypically some 6133 with 16 hcp or so. And that should create a force opposite a 3-level responsive double.

Having said that, I think it takes an act of faith in one's partner to bid 3♠ absent discussion ahead of time. Even with an expert partner, if we haven't played much, I'd be very, very nervous waiting for his next call.

I'll go with 4♥ then 5♠, but I am not happy so far

[Hanoi5]

4♥ and 5♠ over the minor partner chooses.

[Cascade]

mikeh, on Jun 25 2010, 03:16 AM, said:

There are good arguments for playing 3♠ as forcing, since most routine 5143/5134 hands would start with 1♠. If we have the agreement that partner's double denies 4♠, then 3♠ should deliver the hand type that was always planning on doubling then spades....prototypically some 6133 with 16 hcp or so. And that should create a force opposite a 3-level responsive double.

Having said that, I think it takes an act of faith in one's partner to bid 3♠ absent discussion ahead of time. Even with an expert partner, if we haven't played much, I'd be very, very nervous waiting for his next call.

I'll go with 4♥ then 5♠, but I am not happy so far

Agree with all of this.

Some double a little more freely with some strong hands with only five spades.

[hanp]

Phil, on Jun 24 2010, 10:11 AM, said:

I don't think 5♥ is necessary. Don't you think 5♠ is forcing?

I don't think that 5S is forcing but it would certainly be useful here. Will think about it.

I don't think that 3S is forcing either.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Bluecalm, why on earth would partner bid 4S on a doubleton???

Yeah, I was wrong here. It made sense to me that we basically have to be 6-1-3-3/6-0-(43)/7-0-3-3 for 4♥ bid and then bidding 4♠ with 2 spades makes sense.
On the other hand we could have bid 3♠ round before. I think we just need agreements with what hand we bid 3♠/4♥/4NT so partner could react accordingly.

[peachy]

3S, partner advertised it is our hand so he is not going to pass. If there is any doubt as to his ability, then I suppose I have to bid four or five, even six.
But 4H, oh please...