[viaduct]

Katie Cutie

KT QT (4 aces + KT/King of Trumps followed by 3 Kings + QT/Queen of Trumps).

This is a much better variation of Gerber, where the King of the ‘agreed’ trump suit is included, with the 4 aces, totalling 5 Ace Key Cards.
The responses to partner’s 4♣ bid, are the same as regular Gerber: -

4♦ = I have 0 (or 4) of the 5 Ace Key Cards (4 Aces + King of Trumps)
4♥ = I have 1 of the 5 Ace Key Cards (OR ALL 5 of the 5 Ace Key Cards – additional reply to regular Gerber)
4♠ = I have 2 of the 5 Ace Key Cards
4NT=I have 3 of the 5 Ace Key Cards.

If your partner then bids 5♣, your response is the normal Gerber 5♣ response, except you EXCLUDE the, already accounted for, King of the ‘agreed’ Trump suit, but you now instead INCLUDE the Queen of the ‘agreed’ Trump suit, totalling 4 King Key Cards.

5♦ = I have 0 (or ALL 4) of the remaining 4 King Key Cards (3 Kings + Queen of Trumps)
5♥ = I have 1 of the remaining 4 King Key Cards
5♠ = I have 2 of the remaining 4 King Key Cards
5NT=I have 3 of the remaining 4 King Key Cards

Naturally this convention can be played Progressively, where after the 5 Ace Key Cards response the initiator normally bids the next available bid to inquire about the 4 King Key Cards, and the replies are the next available bid up = 0, 2 bids up = 1 of the remaining 4, etc. etc.
However, if the next available bid would be “Trumps” – this would be a “sign-off”, thus the initiator must bid the next bid above “Trumps” to ask about the 4 King Key Cards.
Any other bid is a “sign-off”.

Other useful variants that can be used when trumps have NOT been established, is either to use regular or progressive Gerber, OR for very experienced users only, to default trumps to clubs and bid as above.

[1eyedjack]

The biggest problem that I would have with a structure like this is giving up the existing use of 4C.

[manudude03]

The "good" club players will have dropped gerber over suits for better treatments already, and the weak club players will find this too complicated.

Not to mention you are just exchanging less information than roman gerber.

[viaduct]

 1eyedjack, on 2016-December-17, 14:37, said:

The biggest problem that I would have with a structure like this is giving up the existing use of 4C.

Those that already use Gerber in one of its various forms ("any time, if ♣s not bid naturally or after No Trump openings), have already 'sacrificed' the 4♣ bid, in order to safely achieve a 4♥/♠ or 5♣/♦ game, without having to resort to a 4NT convention and ending up too high!
Remember your average club player can't handle control cues AND natural suit bids, and therefore often has an incomplete picture of their partners hand!

[viaduct]

 manudude03, on 2016-December-17, 15:34, said:

The "good" club players will have dropped gerber over suits for better treatments already, and the weak club players will find this too complicated.

Not to mention you are just exchanging less information than roman gerber.

The sub-title reads "for the above average" and not for the "good" OR the "weak" player! Please enlighten me as to what information Roman Gerber gives that Katie Cutie doesn't, and additionally using Progressive KTQT one can still stop in 4♠ or 4NT!

[TylerE]

 viaduct, on 2016-December-17, 17:56, said:

The sub-title reads "for the above average"

Above average players don't play Gerber over suit contracts.

[Kaitlyn S]

You mean this wasn't a thread about me?

[Fluffy]

 Kaitlyn S, on 2016-December-17, 22:16, said:

You mean this wasn't a thread about me?

Dissapointing:)

[manudude03]

 viaduct, on 2016-December-17, 17:56, said:

The sub-title reads "for the above average" and not for the "good" OR the "weak" player! Please enlighten me as to what information Roman Gerber gives that Katie Cutie doesn't, and additionally using Progressive KTQT one can still stop in 4♠ or 4NT!

Roman gerber can find out about the queen of trumps at the 4 level and in its most advanced form, you can find out exactly which kings partner holds. And yes, you can sometimes stop at the 4 level with roman gerber too.

As an aside, I can only think of one hand I've had in the last 10 years of competitive bridge where I felt the hand was right for gerber, so it's not something I spend a lot of time on.

[jogs]

This thread needs a picture.