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Diamonds 3-3? ... and the heart finesse?

#1 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 10:21

Scoring: IMP

S: 4S
Lead: S5


How do you fancy your chances in the thin 4? You opened 1, and over your partner's 1NT response, East overcalled 2. One minute later you have propelled yourself to a very poor game.

West leads a trump, and East follows. Diamonds 3-3 and the heart finesse, right? You are an entry short for a reverse dummy, so forget about that. Any other legitimate chances? Good luck!

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#2 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 11:42

Win in dummy. Heart finesse. Cash Ace. K, A, heart ruff. Spade to dummy, club ruff high. Exit diamond. Hoping East has 2325 shape and AK stiff diamonds. Is that a legitimate hope? Else you can hope that East has AQ or AJ and there is a defensive slip.
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#3 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 16:58

i must be seeing something wrong here... win the spade, lead a diamond.. win the return (if club, take the king), lead a diamond... win return (if another club, win in dummy and take heart finesse), lead a diamond... draw trumps and claim..

isn't that 5 spades, 2 hearts, 1 diamond and 2 clubs? can't be that simple
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#4 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 17:03

luke warm, on Apr 12 2005, 05:58 PM, said:

isn't that 5 spades, 2 hearts, 1 diamond and 2 clubs? can't be that simple

Do diamonds always break 3-3 for you? :) Because if they are not, how are you going to get a diamond trick? Ruff your last diamond if they break 4-2? No good. Remember that a trump was led, and they will continue trumps every time you lead a diamond.

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#5 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 17:23

sorry, i thought it was given in the problem that diamonds were 3/3... musta misread it
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#6 User is offline   jdulmage 

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Posted 2005-April-12, 21:53

Echognome, on Apr 12 2005, 12:42 PM, said:

Win in dummy. Heart finesse. Cash Ace. K, A, heart ruff. Spade to dummy, club ruff high. Exit diamond. Hoping East has 2325 shape and AK stiff diamonds. Is that a legitimate hope? Else you can hope that East has AQ or AJ and there is a defensive slip.

I like this the best - stripping your hand of hearts and getting the clubs out of there, not only are they kinda end played from playing hearts or clubs, they will have to break the diamond suit, hope to hell there is a misdefence and heart hook is on.
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#7 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 05:09

People seem to have problems with solving this one. Let me help a little then. Diamonds were 4-2 (4 with West), and it's quite likely that they are, especially when East is known to have club length, probably 6 cards.

Is this enough for you to see the light? Not easy, I admit, but declarer actually made it at the table (the heart finesse must of course be on).

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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 07:21

2H, 2C and 6 trumps. Straight forward dummy reversal.
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#9 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 07:26

The_Hog, on Apr 13 2005, 02:21 PM, said:

2H, 2C and 6 trumps. Straight forward dummy reversal.

And where are all your entries???
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#10 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 07:43

One entry short for that Free, unless you exit a D in the end position and can make your last 2 trumps separately- seems remote chance.
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#11 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 07:52

Plug away threatening a diamond ruff, they have to exit trumps, after next trump exit, take heart hook (it will win), then plug away at diamonds again. There most likely squeeze is delayed duck in diamonds and and clubs on EAST because of lack of entry condition for H/D squeeze on WEST. But this requiers EAST to be 1-2-4-6. Seems against the odds. Don't answer it yet, I will look later today.

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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 08:36

inquiry, on Apr 13 2005, 02:52 PM, said:

Plug away threatening a diamond ruff, they have to exit trumps, after next trump exit, take heart hook  (it will win), then plug away at diamonds again. There most likely squeeze is delayed duck in diamonds and and clubs on EAST because of lack of entry condition for H/D squeeze on WEST. But this requiers EAST to be 1-2-4-6. Seems against the odds. Don't answer it yet, I will look later today.

Ben

I think it's impossible after the lead, since you can't rectify the count before starting the squeeze, unless it's some kind of stepping stone thingy...

The only hope imo is that you can play some s and they can't take your last trump away just yet.
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#13 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 08:49

Free, on Apr 13 2005, 10:36 AM, said:

inquiry, on Apr 13 2005, 02:52 PM, said:

Plug away threatening a diamond ruff, they have to exit trumps, after next trump exit, take heart hook  (it will win), then plug away at diamonds again. There most likely squeeze is delayed duck in diamonds and and clubs on EAST because of lack of entry condition for H/D squeeze on WEST. But this requiers EAST to be 1-2-4-6. Seems against the odds. Don't answer it yet, I will look later today.

Ben

I think it's impossible after the lead, since you can't rectify the count before starting the squeeze, unless it's some kind of stepping stone thingy...

The only hope imo is that you can play some s and they can't take your last trump away just yet.

Impossible? No. This is a CLE delayed duck squeeze. Give EAST x Kx AKJT QJTxxx and they can't stop me (WEST has no second entry to play thrid trump). So give EAST KT9x of diamond, West AQ.

Win spade, , West wins, another , win in dummy, heart hook, push diamond. West wins, must push another trump or I ruff a diamond after all. This is the ending...



Cash spade, what is East to play. IF club, you have your 10th trick. If , you duck a to establish the 13th diamond in your hand while you have a club entry. But again, this line requires very specific hand pattern on EAST. There maybe a better line.
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#14 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 09:00

inquiry, on Apr 13 2005, 09:49 AM, said:

But again, this line requires very specific hand pattern on EAST. There maybe a better line.

Very impressive analysis Ben, but as you point out: there may be a better line. There is, even a much simpler one. Let me know when you want me to reveal it.

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#15 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 09:09

If west is 3-4-4-2 (likely given the 2 overcall) then

take the lead in dummy, finesse, cash ace, K, to ace to come to this position :



Now ruff a with ace(or king) ans west is squeezed !

if he discards a you will establish one in dummy
if he discards a , your 4th diamond will be good
if he under-ruffs, you will be able to ruff your last in dummy !

So now, play a and you are home !

This line of course works also when are 3-3

Alain
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#16 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 09:14

joker_gib, on Apr 13 2005, 10:09 AM, said:

If west is 3-4-4-2 (likely given the 2 overcall) then

take the lead in dummy, finesse, cash ace, K, to ace to come to this position :

Dealer: ?????
Vul: ????
Scoring: Unknown
QJ
xx
xxx
x
xx
Jx
AQJx
 
x
K
Tx
QJxx
AKT2
 
xxxx
 
 


Now ruff a with ace(or king)  ans west is squeezed !

if he discards a you will establish one in dummy
if he discards a , your 4th diamond will be good
if he under-ruffs, you will be able to ruff your last in dummy !

So now, play a and you are home !

This line of course works also when are 3-3

Alain

Billiant Alain! A squeeze in 3 suits, including the trump suit. That doesn't happen often. Clubs 2-6 is the assumption, and that looks like a good chance given the overcall.

In fact, finding West with a 3-4-4-2 shape isn't that far away at all, is it? West's hand in real life was:

xxx
J10xx
Qxxx
xx

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#17 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2005-April-13, 09:24

Walddk, on Apr 13 2005, 06:09 AM, said:

Let me help a little then. Diamonds were 4-2 (4 with West), and it's quite likely that they are, especially when East is known to have club length, probably 6 cards.

Well, I must admit that your little help helped me a lot ! ;) and that I probably wouldn't have found it at the table :(

Alain
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