[mike777]

Vul vs Vul
TG

1D (OPP)=?

Your bid with:

AJX=AQ8X=QJ96=XX

[the hog]

Pass or 1H. Probably 1H at MPs. Certainly pass at Imps. I don't mind overcalling on 4 card suits, particularly with length in the opp's suit, but here my Ds are far too defensive in nature to risk an Imps overcall.

[fred]

For me the choice would be between Pass and 1NT. Who I was playing against would be the major factor I would use to make this decision.

I am sure that many would consider Pass clearcut, but given that Hog might bid 1H and I might bid 1NT, I would say that this problem does not qualify as "clearcut".

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[HeartA]

completely agree with fred. I was thinking of pass or 1NT as well.

[Free]

pass or 1NT for me. Probably 1NT

[Double !]

happy to hear that 1NT is a reasonable consideration. (the AQ of hearts looks like AK to me: bad eye sight)
that was the first thing that came to mind--always seem to get bad results by passing such a hand, especially if P has any kind of 5-card major. The obvious risk is if a red card appears on my left. Dangerous, but so is crossing the street, especially in inner city.

[inquiry]

1♥ - not clear cut.

1NT is out for me, I like raptor 1NT.

[pbleighton]

1H, but I'm not happy with the suit quality vulnerable.

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

mike777, on Apr 7 2005, 11:24 PM, said:

Vul vs Vul
TG

1D (OPP)=?

Your bid with:

AJX=AQ8X=QJ96=XX

Just a question to the other folks here:
why discard completely an offshape t/o double ?
I am puzzled by the fact that noone considered it.

Let me try to list, in my view, the pros and cons of doubling with this hand:

CONS
A double is misdescriptive in term of honors location: it tends to suggest few values in opps suit and support in all others.
Pard may bid clubs and we'll not be happy

PROS
- In response of a to dbl, my pard will strive desperately to bid a major: if he bids clubs he is very likely to have 5 cards. Of course it may occasionally work poorly, but the same applies for alternatives such as 1NT or 1H overcall;
- The higher the hcp content, the more it is reasonable to double offshape; as Mike Lawrence says, you cannot always wait for a 4441 short in opps suit to make a t/o double; here we have 14 hcp, a non minimum opener, of which 11 GOOD hcp are in unbid suits, so I'd prefer to stretch for a t/o double rather than stretching for a 1NT overcall;
- Yes, doubling is dangerous, but, in my opinion:
.......- it is less dangerous than bidding 1NT
.......- if one (like me) has agreed with pard aggressive preemptive raise of 1M overcalls, bidding 1H might be easily raised preemptively to a level to high for such a balanced hand;


I would love some comments on the above points by the BBF "gurus"

[flytoox]

Chamaco, on Apr 8 2005, 09:23 AM, said:

mike777, on Apr 7 2005, 11:24 PM, said:

Vul vs Vul
TG

1D (OPP)=?

Your bid with:

AJX=AQ8X=QJ96=XX

Just a question to the other folks here:
why discard completely an offshape t/o double ?
I am puzzled by the fact that noone considered it.

Let me try to list, in my view, the pros and cons of doubling with this hand:

CONS
A double is misdescriptive in term of honors location: it tends to suggest few values in opps suit and support in all others.
Pard may bid clubs and we'll not be happy

PROS
- My pard will strive ASAP to bid a major: if he bids clubs he is very likely to have 5 cards.
- The higher the hcp content, the more it is reasonable to double offshape; as Mike Lawrence says, you cannot always wait for a 4441 short in opps suit to make a t/o double; here we have 14 hcp, a non minimum opener, of which 11 GOOD hcp are in unbid suits, so I'd prefer to stretch for a t/o double rather than stretching for a 1NT overcall;
- Yes, doubling is dangerous, but, in my opinion:
.......- it is less dangerous than bidding 1NT
.......- if one (like me) has agreed with pard aggressive preemptive raise of 1M overcalls, bidding 1H might be easily raised preemptively to a level to high for such a balanced hand;


I would love some comments on the above points by the BBF "gurus"

I am not a guru, but will give it a try.

It is fine to dbl with one dismerit, not two. Here there are too many minues with dbl. You have waste in Diamond, short s and c. More important, there are better alternatives.

I really dont like 1H, DQJxx is really NT oriented. If D is Axxx,or Axxxx, I would overcall 1H. Here if I overcall 1H and pd raises to 2H, opp may take many tricks by crossruff.

I like 1N/pass as other posters do. If you think 1N is dangerous, then pass is perfectly ok. Pd, if have sth, will always reopen given he is likely short in diamond. One thing we dont neet to worry is that if we have a game we will never miss it.

[Gerben42]

I like a stronger hand for an 1NT overcall (especially vulnerable!).
1♥ is a consideration but as others have said the suit is not that great (much rather I'd have AQJx) and the diamonds are defensive.
Double is out as well, too many flaws.

So put me down for a Pass.

[joker_gib]

Gerben42, on Apr 8 2005, 05:04 AM, said:

I like a stronger hand for an 1NT overcall (especially vulnerable!).
1♥ is a consideration but as others have said the suit is not that great (much rather I'd have AQJx) and the diamonds are defensive.
Double is out as well, too many flaws.

So put me down for a Pass.

You said all !

Pass for me too

Alain

[Chamaco]

Quote

It is fine to dbl with one dismerit, not two. Here there are too many minues with dbl. You have waste in Diamond, short s and c.

True, but we have prime values in a majors and a non minimum hcp content, which allows for some offshape action.

Quote

More important, there are better alternatives.

I am not sure:

1) I dislike 1H overcall, because pard will raise with many hand types that will produce a dsaster

Quote

I like 1N/pass as other posters do. If you think 1N is dangerous, then pass is perfectly ok. Pd, if have sth, will always reopen given he is likely short in diamond. One thing we dont neet to worry is that if we have a game we will never miss it.

2) for a 1NT overcall I like to be on the 16+ hcp side rather than on the 15- side; here we have a good 14.
Fair enough, but I REALLY cannot see how double is more dangerous than 1NT.
If I double, if pard is broke, 90% of the times we'll be in 1M.
If pard is broke and bids 2C most likely he'll have a 5 bagger, and most probably his 5 bagger will be more useful in a suit contract rather than in a 1NT contract.

3) Pass is reasonable. However, in a world of light bidders, I feel much more comfortable with the "in quick/out quick" principle: when we have some values, stretch as much as possible to bid right away at a low level and then leave the decision to pard.
Passing with such kind of hands often results in later, more dangerous action at high level, or in putting too much pressure to pard if he has to balance with 6-7 count at the 2 level.
And having to stretch to bid, I feel safer doubling than bidding 1NT.

Sure, if we pass we won't miss many games, but we'll lose many partscores, often as double score for them.


So, having said that I like to stretch to bid right away at a low level, IMO doubling has less flaws than the other bids.
I do not like doubling, but I like less passing and bidding 1NT/1H.

[Rebound]

I guess I pass here as a matter of principle. To me, the wide-open club suit makes it as unattractive to o/c 1NT as to dbl. My experience (limited tho it may be) is such that I will often get a good result defending with this hand when the opponents get too high against silent opposition. Otherwise, I feel it is just as likely we will be able to re-enter the auction from a balancing position if necessary. I am sure Fred plays against tougher opposition most of the time so that a 1NT call would be worth it to keep responder out of the auction below the 2-level, but most of the ppl I play against will usually get too high when my partner has no cards.

The worst case scenario I can picture is if the auction were to proceed (1♦)-p-(3♦)-P-(P)-... I would be hard pressed to decide whether to double here. My thinking tho, as described above, is that I should pass, expecting that if we can't beat 3♦ we probably can't make anything at the 3-level either.

I've just re-read my own post and I've noticed it implies that I'm saying that on this hand any plus is a good plus. Now that I think about it, I believe it to be true, but what do you folks think?

This post has been edited by Rebound: 2005-April-08, 06:00

[Chamaco]

Rebound, on Apr 8 2005, 11:49 AM, said:

The worst case scenario I can picture is if the auction were to proceed (1♦)-p-(3♦)-P-(P)-... I would be hard pressed to decide whether to double here. My thinking tho, as described above, is that I should pass, expecting that if we can't beat 3♦ we probably can't make anything at the 3-level either.

What about:

1D-p-1NT-p-p-?

What do you do now ? LHO has no interest in the major but opener may still have them. Pard may have some decent 6-7 hcp with a long major or even up to 9-10 hcp: nowadays many pairs open routinely with an 11 count and respond 1NT with 5 hcp or so.

Even when hcp split evenly this can easily be a double partscore swing.

So, the risk of passing is significant, even if game is not on.

On the other hand, the risk of reopening is MUCH bigger now than taking action (double) at the 1-level.

[fred]

Rebound, on Apr 8 2005, 11:49 AM, said:

I've just re-read my own post and I've noticed it implies that I'm saying that on this hand any plus is a good plus. Now that I think about it, I believe it to be true, but what do you folks think?

Disagree.

Game for your side is a live possibility. If you pass you are essentially giving up on getting to game.

So +100 on defense may not be good (if your side can make +600 in 3NT for example).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Fluffy]

1♥ for me at any form of scoring.

1NT overcall to me shows 16-18, do people here show 15-17?.

[joker_gib]

Fluffy, on Apr 8 2005, 08:44 AM, said:

1♥ for me at any form of scoring.

1NT overcall to me shows 16-18, do people here show 15-17?.

I tend to overcall also a little bit stonger : 16-18 too

But of course, sometimes it can be 15 (the world is not perfect )