[helene_t]

... or more to the point, what is p expected to have.

Playing with a good pd, pick-up partnership so the only agreement was "Precision, 1NT=13-15" (but my profile says "undiciplined preempts").

I have ♠AQx ♥AKQJxx ♦xx ♣xx. It goes (red vs white, IMPs)
Pd RHO Me LHO
1♦ pass 4♥ 4♠
dbl
Maybe you don't agree with 4♥ but that's what I bid.

[Walddk]

Take-out double is the answer. Maximum for his 1♦ which, playing Precision, must be 15 or very good 14 with 1354, 1345. He could even have 1444. We must have a slam on, maybe a grand slam even.

With a penalty of 4♠ partner must pass and wait for me to reopen with a double. That's how I play it; I am sure others have different agreements.

I will now make up for my lazy 4♥ call and bid 6♥.

A question beside the point: Why the rush? What do you bid with

♠ x
♥ AQJ10xxxx
♦ xx
♣ xx

If you don't have a strong jump shift available over 1♦, then 1♥ is much better than 4♥ on the hand you actually had. The hand I display is a 4♥ response to me.

Roland

[inquiry]

Here I disagree with Roland. When I bid 4H, I have set trumps for our side, so 4Sx can't be takeout, we have agreed on hearts as trumps. Double here is penalty. Now, the fact that I hold AQx makes this interpretation hard to believe, but you asked what the double was? It is penalty, or you can play it as cards (but then a precision opener can't have cards).

Ben

[P_Marlowe]

Penalty, but looking at my cards it is probably
take out. "undiciplined preempt " means random
or trash, which makes a negative double at these
colurs and at this level enterprising at best.

Opener is limited, and I could have a normal 4H
opener / preempt, which means partner can not
really want to play on the 5 level in a 4-3 fit, if
we have a 7-2 / 7-0 fit.

But one question: Why play Precision, if you kill the
space in such a way.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

If 1D is precision, what on Earth pard is doubling on? The only sensible thing I could think of is something like

---
xxx
AKxxx
AKxxx

though my experience says in practice pard is more likely to have something like

xx
xx
AKxxx
AQxx

and his double is purely speculative.

It really depends on what style this pick-up pard has shown so far. If he's scientific, bid 5S. If he's a light doubler I might pass or bid 5H.

[pclayton]

With 4N as a takeout for the minors, I can't see x being takeout. I can't envision a 3-1-4-5 that wants to double 4♠ for takeout. Our 4♥ says we are interested in hearts as trumps and nothing else.

If we held as opener:

AJxx, x, AKxx, Kxxx, we'd all open 1♦ and double 4♠ without incident.

On the subject hand, holding AQx is suspicious, but it shouldn't alter the meaning of the double. Looking at this holding, double does look more takeout oriented. Well, I pass, and after the session we can talk about the meaning of the double of 4♠ over a beer.

If the AQx was in another suit, we'd all pass this hand without thought.

[dogsbreath]

agree -- definitely penalty .. since p can have no expectation of us making more than 4H.
Rgdds Dog

[flytoox]

What does 4H show in your sys? I think 4H is a wrong call here, very wrong. If 4H is passable, then it means you are happy to play 4H and have no interest in slam. Consistency implies you should pass pd's dbl, whatever it means.

However, pd has nothing in majors. Yet he opened 1D. He should have strength in minors. You can easily make 6H if pd has DAKQxx and Ck. The problem is you dont have anyway to explore. Perhaps you should take the cash and rethink 4H after this board is over.

[joker_gib]

Penalty but I really don't like 4♥ !

Why not bid 1♥ ?

[whereagles]

Stop nagging the 4H bid. It is perfectly ok. Opposite an 11-15 opener chances for slam on this hand are remote.

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Apr 5 2005, 08:17 AM, said:

Stop nagging the 4H bid. It is perfectly ok. Opposite an 11-15 opener chances for slam on this hand are remote.

remote? there are just too many hands pd could have for a slam.

[whereagles]

Yes, remote. You need something like AK AK in the minors for a slam. Not impossible of course, but 4H is a perfectly ok practical bid for a 1st time partnership.

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Apr 5 2005, 08:21 AM, said:

Yes, remote. You need something like AK AK in the minors for a slam. Not impossible of course, but 4H is a perfectly ok practical bid for a 1st time partnership.

Does it hurt to explore the slam possibility? What is the point of preempting pd with 4H? What if pd DOES have DAK and CAK? How do you plan to explain to pd?

4H bid sound more like a hand with X,KQJTxxx,xxx,Ax. If you bid 4H with so wide range pd will find it difficult what to do.

Even if pd has sth like x, xxx,AKxxx,Kxxx, slam has very good chance. Pd could have a much better hand.

[HeartA]

flytoox, on Apr 5 2005, 01:52 PM, said:

whereagles, on Apr 5 2005, 08:21 AM, said:

Yes, remote. You need something like AK AK in the minors for a slam. Not impossible of course, but 4H is a perfectly ok practical bid for a 1st time partnership.

Does it hurt to explore the slam possibility? What is the point of preempting pd with 4H? What if pd DOES have DAK and CAK? How do you plan to explain to pd?

4H bid sound more like a hand with X,KQJTxxx,xxx,Ax. If you bid 4H with so wide range pd will find it difficult what to do.

Even if pd has sth like x, xxx,AKxxx,Kxxx, slam has very good chance. Pd could have a much better hand.

Agree with Hongjun. But I will go a step further. I wouldn't bid 4♥ with X,KQJTxxx,xxx,Ax either. Partner could have ♥A, ♦AKQxx, or even ♠A and ♦AK(Q)Jxx.

[han]

Double is absolutely for penalty imo, I pass. I expect partner to hold 4 spades, hearts shortness and some quick tricks in the minors.

I would not bid 4H, but it seems to have worked out well.

[flytoox]

Hannie, on Apr 5 2005, 08:39 PM, said:

Double is absolutely for penalty imo, I pass. I expect partner to hold 4 spades, hearts shortness and some quick tricks in the minors.

I would not bid 4H, but it seems to have worked out well.

Pd is just impossible to have 4 spades in the context. He rates to have minor suit tricks to cash.

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on Apr 5 2005, 08:17 AM, said:

Stop nagging the 4H bid. It is perfectly ok. Opposite an 11-15 opener chances for slam on this hand are remote.

I think opposite ♦AKQxxx ♣A you may have cold 13 tricks, I Was taught to at least try for 6, when you can win 7 opposite a minimum hand (ok, ok it is not a minimum hand, but still... :-P).

[Echognome]

The question seemed to me what does double mean, not "did you like my 4♥ bid?"

My view is penalties. Top of the range. Obviously depends on what your partnership agreement about 4♥ is. Also depending on how you play your 2♣ opener, could be 4045 or 4144.