[whereagles]

It is common sense that 3rd seat openings can be rather light (for various reasons), so applying laws forbidding opening on less than x hcp in 3rd seat is against common sense and therefore against bridge itself.

[pclayton]

I love wild bids in 3rd chair, but this isn't the hand for it.

--->You arent preempting their spades; you hold them.
--->You sure as heck don't want a heart lead.
--->This hand will be easier to bid after they open.

[whereagles]

pclayton, on Apr 2 2005, 08:11 AM, said:

--->You sure as heck don't want a heart lead.

DOH! That's why you open 1S

[Chamaco]

Olegru said:

Ave- assigned by director, who explained me, I must pass with 7 points or less.

It is likely that it was a BBOITALY tourney then.

In the BBOITALY tourneys they apply the rule enforced in Italy, where you cannot open at the 1-level with <8 hcp, not even as a psyche.

DISCLAIMER: I do not agree with this rule, just quoting so that you know where you will (or won't) be playing.

[beatrix45]

Playing opposite myself, I would bid 2H because it should be (almost) safe even vul because of my 6-4 distribution and the trick taking potential in the spade suit. What to bid here is a matter of one's philosophy concerning weak 2 bids - are they essentially disciplined and constructive or preemptive and disruptive (my preference).

Best case is that pard can make a LAW raise with three or four hearts, and one of the opponents will intervene by bidding his/her partner's non-existent spade length. If partner might suspect that I could have a 5 bagger for my vul two bid, then bidding 2H is less attractive since a disruptive heart raise is less likely. This hand is a poster child for the 'preemptive and disruptive' school of weak two bids.

Trixie

[han]

I don't know the tourny, but opening with less than 8 HCP is absolutely legal in ACBL land. It's systemically opening such hands that's illegal.

[luke warm]

is that right? hmm... i'll take your word for it, but i honestly thought there was a rule for a bid at the one level having <8 hcp

[awm]

I had a rather interesting interaction with ACBL on this matter. ACBL rules state:

DISALLOWED -- Opening one bids which by partnership agreement could show fewer than 8 hcp. (Not applicable to a psych.)

ACBL rules do not anywhere indicate that the rules regarding 3rd seat openings are different from those regarding first seat openings.

Anyways, in a recent tournament, an opponent opened 1♥ against my teammates in third seat holding:

---

When questioned about this after the hand, opponents indicated that they play rule of 20 openings in 1st/2nd seat, and routinely add a king to their hand when opening in 3rd seat. In this particular auction, responder held a poor ten count and chose to pass after opener's 2♦ rebid -- not an unreasonable choice in any case but perhaps made more appealing by the knowledge that light hands such as this one were within the realm of possibility.

So I asked ACBL if this was a legal opening/agreement. ACBL response:

On Oct 23, 2004, at 12:39 PM, rulings@acbl.org wrote:

>
> Adam,
>
> Third seat opening bids are often 'tactical' and 'positional', and
> based on vulnerability.  Common strategy would see many players
> opening this hand in third chair.  These same pairs often employ some
> form of Drury.  
>
> While it is beyond the scope of this mailbox to give lessons, we all
> open the South hand.  I agree with the director's ruling.
>
> This hand would not conform to ACBL restrictions on opening bids in
> first and second seat (if made by agreement).  That is, any pair who
> agreed to open this type of hand would be deemed to have an illegal
> agreement.  I hope this helps.
>
> Rick

Curious, I asked what the differences were between the rules for 1st and 3rd seat openings, and where these differences were documented (citing the rule mentioned above). ACBL response:

> Adam, the restriction you site DOES apply to all opening bid agreements.  Players who choose
> to use some judgement in opening light in 3rd seat may do so, but only at there own risk.  
>
> Rick

Must admit, I really don't get it. ACBL rules are quite beyond my comprehension. Now I can't say that some of the other countries I've heard about have rules that make much more sense... but this interaction still struck me as particularly weird.

[luke warm]

that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard... if you have a rule, use it... the rule might as well be "no one level openings under 8 hcp unless a psych OR unless a local TD decides it's ok, OR unless you write us and we decide to answer in nonsensical verbiage"

[olegru]

Chamaco, on Apr 2 2005, 05:31 AM, said:

It is likely that it was a BBOITALY tourney then.

In the BBOITALY tourneys they apply the rule enforced in Italy, where you cannot open at the 1-level with <8 hcp, not even as a psyche.

You right, it was BBOITALY

[jdulmage]

olegru, on Mar 31 2005, 09:20 AM, said:

All vul.
Indi

♠ AQ105
♥ J85432
♦ 102
♣ 7

What would you bid after two passes?

Pass, you have a 7 count, if you open it, what will you open? Surely, they will find a minor partial somewhere. And it's more likely to go P - P - P - 1C - P - 1D, now you can double or whatever you wish.