[Echognome]

Red vs White Imps

You hold:

♠ 109x
♥ ---
♦ AQ109
♣ AQ10xxx

As dealer, you open 1♣. LHO bids 3♥ and 2 passes back to you. Do You reopen with a double? If not, do you pass or bid?

[Fluffy]

double, kinda clear IMO. (ecept for thsoe who never reopen with void hehe, good luck on this guess).

[joker_gib]

Double !

Partner is waiting to transform !!

[MickyB]

Double looks clearcut to me too. You will be slightly nervous if pard passes, but at least you have AQ AQ for him.

[whereagles]

I double, but not without trepidation, since a lot of things can go wrong here.

Still, normally RHO will have one or two minor suit kings, so my hand rates to make around 3 tricks, maybe 4 on a good day. Add a mearge 2 trick from pard and this should go down.

[Chamaco]

If I reopen with a void, I want to have extra hcp more than if I were balancing with a singleton, not only 12 hcp of which clubs values are suspect in defemse (too much lenght, easily could be ruffed).

In order to double with a void, I must have at least 15-16 hcp.

Here I am not worried of missing 3NT, so I do not fear bypassing it.
Bidding 4C will lose when pard has a trump stack and 3S goes down, but more often than not, these penalties with one defender void in trumps does not payoff as expected, so I give up the chances for penalty and settle for 4m.


I am torn between 4C and 4D, probably I rebid 4C.

[Free]

clear Dbl imo

[inquiry]

I don't like it, but I have no choice but to reopen in order to preserve partnership harmony. We are VUL and presumably parnter passed 3♥ waiting to hear us reopen with double. He saw we were red and they where white and still he did not bid 3NT himself direclty over 3♥. So, as much as I dislike reopening with a double when void in their suit, I have little choice here. I double.

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Mar 22 2005, 02:23 PM, said:

I don't like it, but I have no choice but to reopen in order to preserve partnership harmony.

I think reopening is clear, to preserve pship harmony, but not necessarily with a double.

However, I expect a good pd to accept that some hands have a ODR too high to reopen with double, and for thse kind of hands, settling for penalty shd be less rewarding than buying the hand.

I would also like to know the full hand.

[Echognome]

I happened to choose what I considered an eccentric 3NT. I agree with many of your comments that partner is waiting to pounce. In fact. partner's hand was

♠ AKxx
♥ KQxxx
♦ xx
♣ 9x

I'm not sure if it would have gone for 500 or 800. I was less concerned when partner had this hand type, than say when he had a heart less. Or, when he has a hand that isn't looking to penalize. I thought 3NT was more flexible in that I could run to 4♣ if doubled.

[Free]

Echognome, on Mar 22 2005, 04:05 PM, said:

I happened to choose what I considered an eccentric 3NT. I agree with many of your comments that partner is waiting to pounce. In fact. partner's hand was

♠ AKxx
♥ KQxxx
♦ xx
♣ 9x

I'm not sure if it would have gone for 500 or 800. I was less concerned when partner had this hand type, than say when he had a heart less. Or, when he has a hand that isn't looking to penalize. I thought 3NT was more flexible in that I could run to 4♣ if doubled.

So did you make that??

[Echognome]

Yes. +660 when I guessed clubs and as expected the ♥A was onside. Small heart lead. Win K. ♣9 ran losing to K. Diamond out of desparation (obviously not best). 11 tricks.

[Walddk]

I suggest this rule of thumb:

The fewer trumps (hearts in this case) I have, the more partner has. Double. I have nothing to be ashamed of if he converts. Just compare this hand to

Jxx
--
KJxxx
KQJxx

then everyone would agree that the actual hand is a good one for defence.

If you don't double, you may just as well give up on negative doubles.

Roland

[hrothgar]

If you play negative doubles, you are forced to double with this hand...
Anything else almost seems ridiculous.

Please don't suggest that the heart void makes double less attractive. I agree that it would be ownderful to lead a trump if partner converts double for penalty. With this said and done, your heart void makes it even more likely that partner trap passed.

[jillybean]

Chamaco, on Mar 22 2005, 07:26 AM, said:

However, I expect a good pd to accept that some hands have a ODF too high to reopen with double,

What is an ODF? ... distribution..
thanks

[inquiry]

jillybean2, on Mar 22 2005, 03:31 PM, said:

Chamaco, on Mar 22 2005, 07:26 AM, said:

However, I expect a good pd to accept that some hands have a ODF too high to reopen with double,

What is an ODF? ... distribution..
thanks

I assume (assumed) that this was a typo, and he meant ODR, which stands for offensive to defense ratio. A high ODR means a hand disproportionately offensively oriented that is a very poor hand for the bidding.

If you have bid weakly, your hand can still have high ODR or low ODR for the bidding so far. If you have bid strongly, the same can be true. You should consider your ODR with regards to what you have shown already. After opening this hand 1C, you hand is much better suited for a club or a diamond contract than to defend against 3H (voids in their suit is offensive, aces are neutral, queens in your long suits are offensive, etc).

[Chamaco]

jillybean2, on Mar 22 2005, 07:31 PM, said:

Chamaco, on Mar 22 2005, 07:26 AM, said:

However, I expect a good pd to accept that some hands have a ODF too high to reopen with double,

What is an ODF? ... distribution..
thanks

oops that was a typo , I meant ODR = Offense/Defense Ratio

[pclayton]

Echognome, on Mar 22 2005, 07:05 AM, said:

I happened to choose what I considered an eccentric 3NT.  I agree with many of your comments that partner is waiting to pounce.  In fact. partner's hand was

♠ AKxx
♥ KQxxx
♦ xx
♣ 9x

I'm not sure if it would have gone for 500 or 800.  I was less concerned when partner had this hand type, than say when he had a heart less.  Or, when he has a hand that isn't looking to penalize.  I thought 3NT was more flexible in that I could run to 4♣ if doubled.

I don't think pard should trap pass with hands like this. While we'll frequently get 800, sometimes we'll get +200 when pard doesn't have the right hand for a reopening double and it creates a disaster.

I very well might pass with the 3=0=4=6 hand for this reason. I don't expect to get rich off of 3♥ x'd and the odds of us making 5 of a minor seem remote with my xxx of spades.

If pard chooses to trap pass, I much prefer a hand like AQTx of hearts and maybe an extra outside card, where 3N looks like an uphill battle