[bearmum]

with a minimum opener I will bid 2♥---- let P know that I have support
HE can force next roung IF he is strong

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Mar 17 2005, 06:13 AM, said:

Really interested in how the 1S and later 2H bidders distinguish between:

J1086 
K106 
8 
AKJ106 

and

A1086 
K106 
8 
AKJ106 

Perhaps they might care to enlighten me as this is obviously a totally different philosophy in the Acol and Standard/2/1 schools. The first hand is an immediate raise, the second goes via 1S.

Hum.. funny you mention this. It is an interesting idea to distinguish two hands that indeed might differ by 3-4 points. It requires systematic major suit raises on 3 cards, though.

Just one thing: are you worried of missing a 44 spade fit if pard has 44 majors and passes 2H? Or rather.. was that ever a problem in practical play?

[the hog]

"Just one thing: are you worried of missing a 44 spade fit if pard has 44 majors and passes 2H? Or rather.. was that ever a problem in practical play? "

Nah!

[EricK]

Quote

Just one thing: are you worried of missing a 44 spade fit if pard has 44 majors and passes 2H? Or rather.. was that ever a problem in practical play?

We very occasionally get to the second best part-score but make constructive bidding of games and slams much easier.

Why should we worry?!

Eric

[whereagles]

I see. I'll definitely give this a thought when I finally manage to indoctrinate pard into 3-card raises.. lol

[luke warm]

mike777, on Mar 16 2005, 05:56 PM, said:

Jimmy cannot 1s be  4 clubs and 4 spades?

not the way i play, unless he is 4144 or 4414... for me, all minor openings, major rebids show unbalanced hands else rebid no trump (or raise partner, if applicable)

since i'd raise hearts if 4414, i either have 4xx5 or 4144

[pclayton]

1S.

I would have to have some extreme suit disparity to obviate a 4 card spade suit to raise pard.

I like the recent discussion of 3 card raises. Another type of hand is where we have the 6 card suit, 3 card support and a minimum.

Another reason for 1S is because I play 12-14 NT's. The single raise can be problematic that can show a shapely 11 with 3 trump or a balanced 15 with 4 trump. So I try to avoid the 3 card raise if I have a rational alternative.

[Fluffy]

I don't have 4 ♥ to support with, what is the problem?

do you think 2♣ is an option rather than 1♠? :-P.

[Elianna]

I like 2h here, mainly for the point that others have made (1s followed later on by 2h is a stronger hand than I have). I should also note, as on the other thread of this type, in most of my regular partnerships, we frequently raise on three card support much more freely than many people are used to.

As has been previously noted on the other thread, if partner has an invitational or better hand, we are always finding the correct place to play, and the problem here is where is the best place to play if I know he is passing my next bid.

To answer another question, if partner has an invitational or better hand, I'm not worried about missing a 4-4 spade fit. 1m - 1h; 2h - 2s shows four card spades (it's not artificial or helpsuit game try or anything of the sort).

[Free]

I'd bid 1♠... Why wouldn't you try to find a 4-4 fit? You still have time to raise ♥ afterwards, even if opps bid in between.

[EricK]

Free, on Mar 19 2005, 12:41 PM, said:

I'd bid 1♠... Why wouldn't you try to find a 4-4 fit? You still have time to raise ♥ afterwards, even if opps bid in between.

You don't have time to support ♥ later if partner passes on a minimum 3-5-1-4 (as occured in another post of yours!)

Eric

[luke warm]

eric, what if he passes with a minimum 3424? as a matter of fact, which is more likely for him to have?

[EricK]

luke warm, on Mar 19 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

eric, what if he passes with a minimum 3424? as a matter of fact, which is more likely for him to have?

Then you will play in 1♠ if you bid 1♠ or 2♥ if you bid 2♥.

I honestly don't know which is more likely.

Eric