[waychan]

1♦ (1♠) dbl (pass)
2♥ pass 3♣
Is it forcing or non-forcing? Which is better?
2♣ forcing 1rd, but not promise a rebid. thx

[flytoox]

I think it is not forcing, just offer a choice. Pd's hand is about invitational and the shape should be 1462 or 2461. If opener has 4 good hearts, he can rebid 3H or 4H, if his heart is bad ans short he can pass 3D.

[ochinko]

What was the meaning of the double? If it was negative meaning "partner please chose between clubs and hearts" then it is clearly a forcing to 3H because partner has already made the choice. But I have no idea what 3C should mean - promising solid clubs, or asking for a clubs support as well.

[Free]

Over here most play this as 1 round force

[mike777]

Game forcing if you play negative free bids.

Playing 2clubs forcing one round but does not promise rebid would seem to have many problems with that style.

[han]

Depends on your agreement of what the double means. If it guarantees four hearts, then 3C is clearly forcing, probably a natural game try in hearts.

btw, 2H does not show an invitational hand but a minimal hand. With invitational values, jump to 3H, with gameforcing values, cuebid 2S.

[luke warm]

without discussion (nfb, etc) i'd play this as 100% forcing...

[HeartA]

Without NFB, this 3♣ is not forcing, nor it gurantees (usually it denies, imo) 4-card of ♥. It shows a hand of 6+ ♣, that is not strong enough for direct 2♣ bid (forcing to game or just one round needs agreement between partners, I think it is forcing to game), or weak for 3♣ (wjs?).

[waychan]

♠Kx ♥Qxxx ♦Axxxx ♣Qx
♠xxx ♥Ax ♦Qx ♣AKJ10xx
♠x ♥Axxx ♦Qx ♣AJ10xxx
1♦ 1♠ 2♣ pass
2♥ pass ?
1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?
1♦ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠
pass pass ?
1♦ 1♠ Dbl 2♠
pass pass ?

[mike777]

Opener hand is very typical when playing light opening system so my response structure is stronger than most.

If LHO passes:

Hand 1A) Neg x and rebid 3c game force.
Hand 1B) Neg x and rebid 3h invite.

If LHO bids 2s:
Hand 2A) neg x and rebid 3c game force
Hand 2B) neg x and then balance over 2s with X.

[jdulmage]

I would expect something like 3 hearts, 5 clubs, 8 HCP. Something weird like that.

[pclayton]

Lazy thinking says its not forcing. NFB isn't standard, but its beside the point.

Pard has to have 4 hearts for the double. This is isn't a "2 features" auction, like 1♠ - (2♥) - dbl is.

Its a game try - pick your poison. No different than 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♥ - 3♣.

[Gerben42]

pclayton, NFB isn't standard FOR YOU. For me it is.

In the given sequence 2♣ would have been forcing so now 3♣ is not forcing. It means: I have a NFB in ♣ but I can not bid this in some other way.

[mike777]

Gerben42, on Mar 10 2005, 04:23 PM, said:

pclayton, NFB isn't standard FOR YOU. For me it is.

In the given sequence 2♣ would have been forcing so now 3♣ is not forcing. It means: I have a NFB in ♣ but I can not bid this in some other way.

If playing NFB then 2clubs is not forcing, hence the name NEGATIVE.

[HeartA]

mike777, on Mar 10 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

Gerben42, on Mar 10 2005, 04:23 PM, said:

pclayton, NFB isn't standard FOR YOU. For me it is.

In the given sequence 2♣ would have been forcing so now 3♣ is not forcing. It means: I have a NFB in ♣ but I can not bid this in some other way.

If playing NFB then 2clubs is not forcing, hence the name NEGATIVE.

Agree. Direct 2C is not forcing, if play NFB. 3C after dbl is forcing.

[inquiry]

♠Kx ♥Qxxx ♦Axxxx ♣Qx

1♦ 1♠ 2♣ pass
2♥ pass ?

I would not bid 2♣ with this hand on Qx, so forget this auction

1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?

Pass. If opener can do no more than 2♥, we are high enough, although I might also bid 3♦ if non-forcing.

waychan asked about these ahnds and these auctions... here is my take on them.

1♦ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠
pass pass ?

I would not bid 2♣

1♦ 1♠ Dbl 2♠
pass pass ?

I would bid a good 3♦ as part of good/bad

============================================

♠xxx ♥Ax ♦Qx ♣AKJ10xx

1♦ 1♠ 2♣ pass
2♥ pass ?

3♣ good hand (assume not playing NFB here), unable to bid anything else constructive.

1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?

I would not double with this hand, unless playing NFB. Playing negative free bids, I would now bid 3♣ showing clubs, and putting the ball back into partners court to figure out what is going on.

1♦ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠
pass pass ?

3♣'s, what else? Still good hand. No heart support (cause I could double here to imply heart interest), no notrump stopper (cause I could bid 2NT).

1♦ 1♠ Dbl 2♠
pass pass ?

I would not double unless I was playing NFB. IF I was playing NFB, I would bid 3♣ now, forcing.

=====================================

♠x ♥Axxx ♦Qx ♣AJ10xxx

1♦ 1♠ 2♣ pass
2♥ pass ?

2♠ forcing cue-bid, game try. I probably will not stop short of game anyway. 2♠ will be the last aggressive bid I make on this hand.

1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?

2♠ again.


1♦ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠
pass pass ?

Double this time, showing hearts, compare to 3♣ above on previous hand.

1♦ 1♠ Dbl 2♠
pass pass ?

Dbl again, also showing hearts and clubs.

Ben

[cherdano]

inquiry, on Mar 10 2005, 09:46 PM, said:

♠Kx ♥Qxxx ♦Axxxx ♣Qx

1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?

Pass. If opener can do no more than 2♥, we are high enough, although I might also bid 3♦ if non-forcing.

Wow. You have a likely 8-9 double fit, 9 working points plus an extra queen for free, two ruffing values, and you don't have a game invite?
I don't doubt you are right, just shows again how light you(r partners) open. Would you agree that this is a clear game invite opposite a "modern standard light" opening, or am I misjudging this hand?

Arend

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Mar 10 2005, 09:01 PM, said:

inquiry, on Mar 10 2005, 09:46 PM, said:

♠Kx ♥Qxxx ♦Axxxx  ♣Qx

1♦ 1♠ Dbl pass
2♥ pass ?

Pass. If opener can do no more than 2♥, we are high enough, although I might also bid 3♦ if non-forcing.

Wow. You have a likely 8-9 double fit, 9 working points plus an extra queen for free, two ruffing values, and you don't have a game invite?
I don't doubt you are right, just shows again how light you(r partners) open. Would you agree that this is a clear game invite opposite a "modern standard light" opening, or am I misjudging this hand?

Arend

How certain are you that your partner has four hearts?

[mike777]

Must admit I would make one more try for game at the table with that hand at imps.

[Flame]

Im surprise to there isnt a simple consensus here.
This bid is your way to show a hand not strong enough for imidiate 2c, so its oviously not forcing.