[pork rind]

[COLOR=green]

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all red, you get this hand in first position in a close team match.
how do you bid it??
if you open 1s pard bids prob bids 2c
if you open 2c pard prob bids 3c
give me your reasons for your bids please

[mcphee]

This does not qualify as a 2C opening bid as partner will expect more. 1S works fine and if partner bids 2C playing 2/1 I'm delighted. I see that leaves me rebid choices, 3S would for me set S as trumps showing a 1 loser suit, 2H is an option but I'mnot sure I want to play in that suit even if I was raised. 2S is not unreasonable either but I think I would opt for 3S.

[han]

This hand is very hard, as the major suit queens will usually give you good play for slam. I don't expect to have a good auction over 1S (although a gameforcing 2C should make it much easier), and since I have game in hand I would start with 2C.

[ochinko]

1Sp - 2C
2H if it's 1F, else
3H - 3NT
4Sp -...

I can't open with 2/3Sp because I have a strong hand, not a weak one, 2 aces and a void. The last thing I'd want here is to preempt my partner.

Since I have 3 losers and 4 quick tricks, 2C would be right even with so few points if my hand had only one suit. But we still could have a slam in hearts and not have a game in spades if they brake badly.

For the same reason I can't open 4Sp. It would be even worse than 2C because now my chances to find a spade slam virtually disappear.

[Walddk]

ochinko, on Mar 7 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

1Sp - 2C
2H if it's 1F

No matter which system you play, 2♥ is at least a 1-round force. The reason for it is logical. Even if 2♣ only shows 10+ hcp, a new suit by opener is forcing, because the rebid shows 12-18. Consequently, a 2-o-1 responder can't pass opposite a hand that could have up to 18.

Personally, I would open 1♠. This is unlikely to be passed out. I try to avoid opening 2♣ if I have any excuse at all. 2♣ is the nightmare opening in a natural system - simply because you have taken the 1-level away from you and your partner.

The subsequent bidding after 2♣ is not as accurate as after 1 of a suit.

Roland

[jdulmage]

Bid 1♠, when partner bids 2♦ or 2♣, you can bid 2♥. Simple.

[ochinko]

Walddk, on Mar 7 2005, 10:05 AM, said:

ochinko, on Mar 7 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

1Sp - 2C
2H if it's 1F

No matter which system you play, 2♥ is at least a 1-round force. The reason for it is logical. Even if 2♣ only shows 10+ hcp, a new suit by opener is forcing, because the rebid shows 12-18. Consequently, a 2-o-1 responder can't pass opposite a hand that could have up to 18.

Thank you, Roland. Wasn't completely sure, so I decided to be on the safe side

Petko

[cherdano]

Walddk, on Mar 7 2005, 03:05 PM, said:

ochinko, on Mar 7 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

1Sp - 2C
2H if it's 1F

No matter which system you play, 2♥ is at least a 1-round force. The reason for it is logical. Even if 2♣ only shows 10+ hcp, a new suit by opener is forcing, because the rebid shows 12-18. Consequently, a 2-o-1 responder can't pass opposite a hand that could have up to 18.

Yep. Acol isn't a system, is it?

Arend

[Walddk]

cherdano, on Mar 7 2005, 12:28 PM, said:

Yep. Acol isn't a system, is it?

Arend

2♥ is also forcing in (modern) Acol. Those days are gone when you responded 2-o-1 with 8+ hcp. I have been playing Acol for 35 years and still do with certain partners (so help me G-d).

Roland

[pork rind]

so far only mcphee has suggested 3s over 2c. the whole point of this is that you want to find out if pard has any spades at all. forget 2h you have 8cards and if part has 2 slam is a virtual certainly. 3s would occur to all if you had 6 cards and akqjxx or kqj10xx. over 3 s what do you play as responses from pard, what does 3nt show, 4c, 4s etc how about 4d??? when you bid 3s you expect part to know that your suit can play opposite a void or singleton but you need to know this.
on opening certainly this hand qualifies for opening 2c but it makes it harder to find out about the hand. it is prob never going to be passed out cause there are 2 many high cards out in the other hands. and almostly equally if opps compete vigorously in the minors you want to be able to bid 4s or 5s on your own and hope you get doubled.

[whereagles]

It is virtually impossible to find out about the queens and club ace, so I just open 2C and follow up with 3S + 4S. Hopefully pard will be able to do something clever afterwards. If not, well, though luck.

[mike777]

1s then 3s.

Strongly disagree with 2h rebid. Set spades and then find control and key cards. You are playing this hand in spades, not hearts.

[flytoox]

Just start with 1S. I am sure you will have plenty time to bid out ur hand. If pd rebid 2C, playing 2/1, I will rebid 2S.

[Antoine Fourrière]

6♠. I don't think I will be able to declare 7♠ scientifically. A singleton and a void already suggest that the real matter here is the right lead or whether the opponents should sacrifice, and uncovering third-round control of hearts or the exact number of discards available borders the impossible.

[mgoetze]

pork rind, on Mar 7 2005, 02:57 PM, said:

[COLOR=green]

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all red, you get this hand in first position in a close team match.
how do you bid it??
if you open 1s pard bids prob bids 2c
if you open 2c pard prob bids 3c
give me your reasons for your bids please

I open 1♣ of course, this hand is surely worth an upgrade to 16+. I'll hope for a positive response so I can relay out the distribution and then find out about the vital queens, unfortunately this one is a bit hard to bid for my system after a negative response. I might jump to 3♠, setting the trump suit unilaterally and promising almost game in my own hand. Or I might bid 1♥ and, if I get a double negative (0-5), rebid 2♠ which is a 1-round force.


PS Are you sure you posted in the right forum?

[cherdano]

mike777, on Mar 7 2005, 06:50 PM, said:

1s then 3s.

Strongly disagree with 2h rebid. Set spades and then find control and key cards. You are playing this hand in spades, not hearts.

I think the point of bidding 2♥ is not to find out whether you play in spades or hearts, but to get partner more excited with ♥Qxx, maybe allowing him to cuebid the ♥Q. (Not that I am confident that this will work out.)

Arend

[keylime]

That's a forcing club hand to me using Precision.

In 2/1, 1S.

[mr1303]

This ISN'T a strong 1C hand playing Precision, for the simple reason that the bidding is likely to go:


1C (2NT) X (5D)

or something similar. Hence I open 1S quite happily.

Over a 2C response I bid 3S, setting trumps. If partner doesn't bid hearts himself I'm not going to either.

[Free]

I usually play 1♣ 15+, I'm allowed to open 1♣ with such hand (GF imo), but I'd probably still open this one 1♠ (~9-15). Reason is that I can bid strong after partner's response, without ANY problems since I'm limited. After a 1♣ opening, you'll get intervention and stuff, and you can start showing your 1st suit at the 4-level if lucky, else at the 5 level... If opps intervene now, I can easily bid ♥s or ♠s (whatever I feel like) to show a very strong hand. The bidding won't die as well, so no problem opening a NF 1♠.

[mikestar]

Qxx in hearts isn't so good--you will need 3-3 hearts or 4-2 hearts with a stiff trump in the hand with the doubleton. QJx is perfect and Qxxx is good. The real variable is partner's spades. With a doubleton, you don't need QS, as the trumps will play for no losers 78% of the time. You are odds on for 6 spades opposite xx xx xxx xxxxxx.

No amount of science can get the needed information in the face of the opponents likely premptive action. At he table, I think I'd emulate Antoine's "to hell with science, six spades!" approach. Perhaps better would be 1S or 1C (Precision), intending to bid 6S next regardless of the auction unless the opponents forget to preempt. Blasting wins whenever:

• They let us play it and it makes.
  
• They sacrifice and it is too expensive.
  
• They sacrifice and it is a phantom.