[kgr]

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(1♣)-1♠
(P)-4♠-(DBL)-P
(P)-REDBL

---

Partner left after this bidding. How do you rate these bids and which one was worst?

Scoring: MP

2NT-(3♠)-4♥-(P)
4NT-(P)-5♣-(P)
5♥-All pass

---

Parter said after this bidding: "u r not adv. I leave"; And left in the middle of a tounement. Which of these bids would you really hate?

[Flame]

I really dont like the bids, i can understand partner who left you because i would have been angry too although i dont think i would leave in a middle of a turney but i would suffer alot. of all the bids 2nt is by far the worse, not only its very very bad bridgly, its also a bid that say you play alone, you dont need a partner, dont need to show ur real shape, no need to find fits, and dont want to take the chance that partner will declarer, for me this bid is offending.

[MickyB]

North made a dodgy overcall, but it isn't as bad as South's subsequent jumping around. West showed a balanced hand when he was 5-5, then tried to catch up when he found a fit... awful! A 4NT bid doesn't exist on that sequence. East didn't do anything wrong, his hand would be more interesting if he had to decide between bidding his 2nd suit and showing his number of aces on the 2nd round!

[hotShot]

kgr, on Feb 27 2005, 11:57 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(1♣)-1♠
(P)-4♠-(DBL)-P
(P)-REDBL

---

Partner left after this bidding. How do you rate these bids and which one was worst?

Well I can accept both pass/1♥ as first bid from south, this is borderline. But i don't like the 1♠ of north, this is to weak. It would need at least 8 HCP and I would expect some distributional points to it. Rising to 4♠ is to much, partner can have a hand like the one shown. One or two HCP more won't make game either. I wonder what redbl could be, it makes no sence.

Quote

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ A ♥ AK632 ♦ AQ654 ♣ KQ ♠   ♥ JT987 ♦ T98 ♣ JT987

2NT-(3♠)-4♥-(P) 4NT-(P)-5♣-(P) 5♥-All pass

Parter said after this bidding: "u r not adv. I leave"; And left in the middle of a tounement. Which of these bids would you really hate?

2NT would not have been my choice, but i don't have a problem with any of these bids. Guess 5♥ will be made.

[luke warm]

kgr, on Feb 27 2005, 05:57 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(1♣)-1♠
(P)-4♠-(DBL)-P
(P)-REDBL

---

Partner left after this bidding. How do you rate these bids and which one was worst?

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ A ♥ AK632 ♦ AQ654 ♣ KQ ♠   ♥ JT987 ♦ T98 ♣ JT987

2NT-(3♠)-4♥-(P) 4NT-(P)-5♣-(P) 5♥-All pass

Parter said after this bidding: "u r not adv. I leave"; And left in the middle of a tounement. Which of these bids would you really hate?

on #1 i really dislike the 1S overcall... i don't like the 4S bid either, i'd bid 2H... the jump seems needless, partner didn't open he overcalled... i could sorta understand it if you thought they had a vulnerable game on, but there's no reason to think so

on #2 i probably wouldn't open 2nt, but after that i don't see a lot to criticize...

i will say that anyone who says what your partner said and leaves in the middle of a game or tourney is wrong and should be made aware of that fact

[david_c]

On the first hand, I don't like 1♠ much, but it's not criminal. South's 4♠ bid looks bad, but he does have a genuine problem - I once bid 2♣ on a hand like this and ended up playing there, so I never do this now unless I can be sure of my partner. But the redouble is terrible: South had no reason to expect that 4♠ was a good contract even before the double came in.

On the second hand, I really dislike 2NT as an opening bid. An opening 2NT is not a compromise between a 1-level bid and 2♣ - it shows a balanced hand. I don't mind if my partner wants to bid an off-shape 2NT sometimes, but with 5-5 that is going too far.

I actually think it's reasonable to go for slam when partner bids 4♥. So, bid 6♥ - it doesn't need much more than a diamond finesse even opposite the 2-count that partner provides on this occasion. But the fact that you're missing the ♣A shouldn't put you off at all: if anything it makes partner more likely to have the ♦K. It's generally considered poor bridge to bid Blackwood and then sign off at the 5-level despite missing only one ace.

[inquiry]

kgr, on Feb 27 2005, 07:57 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(1♣)-1♠
(P)-4♠-(DBL)-P
(P)-REDBL

---

Partner left after this bidding. How do you rate these bids and which one was worst?

The first hand is a series of bidding mistakes by SOUTH (so i hope you were north).

First South passed an opening hand. This distorts his bidding because now, over 1S overcall, he has no way short of leaping to game to show that he has an opening hand. in light of the double, he wanted to confirm his opening hand with a redouble. Why he didn't (or you didn't) open 1H I don't know. South should issue a strong game try maybe 2♣ and then follow up with more spades.

How about north? He has 7 of the worse points you ever seen. But a spade bid might be crucial to get partner off to a useful opening lead aginst 3NT or to find cheap sacrafice at these colors. I would not overcall 1♠, but I can understand it and don't find it terrifically horrible.

If you bid like this as south, i guess i could understand your partner's unhappyness, but not the way he expressed it. If you were north, you are better off without him if he not only bids this way, but acts this way as well..

Quote

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ A ♥ AK632 ♦ AQ654 ♣ KQ ♠   ♥ JT987 ♦ T98 ♣ JT987

2NT-(3♠)-4♥-(P) 4NT-(P)-5♣-(P) 5♥-All pass

Parter said after this bidding: "u r not adv. I leave"; And left in the middle of a tounement. Which of these bids would you really hate?

I am not thrilled with 2NT on this west's hand. Not because of the singleton, that is ok.. but because with 5-5 and so many controls, this hand is TOO STRONG for 2NT. The 4H bid was creative and deserved a better fate. As west, hearing partner bid 4H would be just too much for me. Sure i would ask for aces, and hearing none, i would simply bid 6H.

6H wil make if hearts are 2-1 with 1D, 1S, 4C, 5H, and a DIAMOND ruff in WEST (after three diamond pitches on long clubs). I suspect hearts have to be 2-1 for with 12 spades between them and a void in hearts, they would have bid again. So here, i find no fault with EAST, and two small flaws with west (and the first flaw only depends upon how strong he plays his 2NT opening bids).

ben

[hrothgar]

Opening 2NT with the second had is incomprehensible, mistating both shape and playing strength.

Equally significant, there' no good reason to do so. Its not like you're expecting rebid problems.

Finally, the auction suggests that the opener has a very limited idea regarding "captaincy". A 2NT opening is meant to be a descriptive bid that will permit partner to accurately judge the combined assets of the two hands...

As to the first hand. The 4♠ raise is highly questionable. Whoever made the bid doesn't understand overcalls opposite a passed hand. Unlike Inquiry I don't think that the South hand is a mandatory opening. Pairs playing a sound opening style might very well decide to pass this eight loser hand despite the nice controls.

The Redouble is suicidal

[kgr]

Sorry, switched the ♠ and ♥ of West on the 2nd. His hand was:
AK632
A
AQ654
KQ
His bidding was as given.

I was North on the 1st hand. I know I was weak for the 1♠ bid, but it is a bid that takes aways some bidding space, so it can be weak as this? (and I'm used to weak overcalls..probably too much

I was East on the second hand. I didn't take 4NT as asking aces, but had to bid 5♣ anyway with this hand.

I think that these hands show the biggest problem of BBO. It is very difficult to play serious bridge. On the first occasion that someone doesn't like the bidding or the play, they leave the table. Even if the are not right!!
The second one was even in the middle of a tournement. What happens if this is reported to abuse? Wiil this player be refused immediatly? I think it should (ok, maybe one warning).
I even don't ask anymore what my partner plays or how he signals. Maybe he will leave anyway after a few hands.

[Flame]

As you can see i thought you were the one who opened 2nt. The fact that it was ur partner make sense to everything, someone who open 2nt might think you arent adv because he just donsnt know bridge.

[hotShot]

kgr, on Feb 27 2005, 06:28 PM, said:

Sorry, switched the ♠ and ♥ of West on the 2nd. His hand was:
AK632
A
AQ654
KQ
His bidding was as given.

In this case I don't think 4NT could be understood, if the plan was tp play NT, perhaps 5NT could be seen that way.

[helene_t]

I do have some sympathy for South's initial pass. After all, he doesn't have a good rebid after a forcing 1NT response. For the rest, I agree with what others have said.

This is an extreme case, and you might report him for leaving in the middle of a tournament. But I don't think abuse should be bothered with bidding theory. Send him an e-mail and kindly ask him te read what others have said about this issue. He probalbly needs to adjust his level to "novice".

[jdulmage]

On first hand, South must open the bidding, he is not vul and has 2 quick tricks. This is a bidder's game. So opening 1♥ would have been easier.

I am betting the bidding would have gone.

(P)-1♥-(2♣)-2♥-(3♣)-All Pass.

Much easier to stay in the boat that way. However, bidding it up to 4♠ is absolutely silly.


On the second hand, I am enclined to open 2♣ strong and artifical. Bidding would probably become

2♣-(2♠)-3♥-(P)-4NT-(P)-5♣-(P)-5♥-All pass.

So nothing different there. With 2NT open however, you may miss a minor slam next time.

[luis]

I can't tell you how much I hate players that pass with 11 and then take some dramatical measures to show that they have a lot of values. It's absolutely criminal in my opinion. Why don't they just open the hand and stop the madness?

In the first hand south should be executed after a very very short trial.
In the second hand the 2NT opening as flame said means "I don't care about my pd"

If it were a question of leaving or staying I would say that hand #2 is worst because it shows desire to play alone. #1 is just the usual insanity of players that decide not to open and then realiza they have an opening in the middle of the aucition. Yikes!

Luis

[luis]

hrothgar, on Feb 27 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

Opening 2NT with the second had is incomprehensible, mistating both shape and playing strength.

Equally significant, there' no good reason to do so. Its not like you're expecting rebid problems.

Finally, the auction suggests that the opener has a very limited idea regarding "captaincy". A 2NT opening is meant to be a descriptive bid that will permit partner to accurately judge the combined assets of the two hands...

As to the first hand. The 4♠ raise is highly questionable. Whoever made the bid doesn't understand overcalls opposite a passed hand. Unlike Inquiry I don't think that the South hand is a mandatory opening. Pairs playing a sound opening style might very well decide to pass this eight loser hand despite the nice controls.

The Redouble is suicidal

Ok Richard but once you decide not to open (I can live with that) you can't jump to 4s like a maniac on the Txx and your never shown values.

[mycroft]

Agreeing with most, I find XX to be suicidal. The *only* way this bid makes sense on a flat 11 is if south has never seen a sub-opening overcall. No, I won't go that far. As long as south has never *made* a sub-opening overcall. And then the opponents are stealing south blind.

So, let me guess, with this auction, *all the finesses* are off, and so we're going down even if north adds the SA to his hand. And south knows this immediately after the double. And...

Okay, so I've opened 2NT on a 1444 before. Once. But 1-5-5-2? What, is he worried about being passed out in 1H? I want to see 2NT-3H; 3S-4S. Really, I do. On KTxxxx and a heart stiff. Transfers so that the 2NT opener gets to play it.

Or 2NT-(3S)-X. Doesn't that sound like fun.

And if it was 5152, and 2NT-(3S)-4H, well, see my first auction. You don't get the joy of forcing the big hand to play the mess, but that's okay. And if he's complaining that east didn't pass so he could double...

I agree with the general tenor of remarks here - if you were south, and west, and bid like that, I'd find a way to leave (not quite that brusquely or impolitely, and not in a tournament, but yeah). But *them* leaving? Because you're not good enough?

Well, we all know what expert means.
Michael (self-rating: "Experts play with me". Unfortunately, so do "experts".)

[TimG]

kgr, on Feb 27 2005, 06:57 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(1♣)-1♠
(P)-4♠-(DBL)-P
(P)-REDBL

---

Partner left after this bidding. How do you rate these bids and which one was worst?

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ A ♥ AK632 ♦ AQ654 ♣ KQ ♠   ♥ JT987 ♦ T98 ♣ JT987

2NT-(3♠)-4♥-(P) 4NT-(P)-5♣-(P) 5♥-All pass

Parter said after this bidding: "u r not adv. I leave"; And left in the middle of a tounement. Which of these bids would you really hate?

Before looking at the other answers:

1) 1S, 4S and redouble are all bad, IMO. It's hard to say which is worse, but I guess south gets twice the blame because he made twice as many questionable calls.

2) Opening 2NT is off the wall crazy. And, I would agree it is evidence that whoever made the bid is not advanced (especially in combination with bidding on over 4H). Of course, that's no reason to get up and leave.

[kgr]

Looking at the answers let me clarify:
On both hands it was my partner (two different) who did make the most bidding problems (I made 1S overcall which was a bit lite). I did NOT have an issue with their bidding. I didn't like it, but I can accept it in a one-time partnership.
The problem I have is that they tell you that you bid wrong and they leave after the bidding. One of them even in the middle of a tournement.
This is for me the biggest problem of BBO (..of on-line bridge). People insult you and leave the table after the slightest bid that they don't like. It never happened to me in f2f bridge that somebody left before the end of the evening.
I'm not sure that everybody on BBO did read the rules (I'm sure not everybody follows them).

[TimG]

kgr, on Mar 1 2005, 04:29 AM, said:

Looking at the answers let me clarify:
On both hands it was my partner (two different) who did make the most bidding problems (I made 1S overcall which was a bit lite). I did NOT have an issue with their bidding. I didn't like it, but I can accept it in a one-time partnership.
The problem I have is that they tell you that you bid wrong and they leave after the bidding. One of them even in the middle of a tournement.
This is for me the biggest problem of BBO (..of on-line bridge). People insult you and leave the table after the slightest bid that they don't like. It never happened to me in f2f bridge that somebody left before the end of the evening.
I'm not sure that everybody on BBO did read the rules (I'm sure not everybody follows them).

The world of pick-up partners often stinks. It is true that partners should not leave in the middle of the game, but they will. Just like in ftf bridge partners shold not criticize partner, but they do. The answer, in online or ftf, is to find compatible partners. It may take a little while, but it is worth the effort.

Tim

[inquiry]

kgr, on Mar 1 2005, 05:29 AM, said:

Looking at the answers let me clarify:
On both hands it was my partner (two different) who did make the most bidding problems (I made 1S overcall which was a bit lite). I did NOT have an issue with their bidding. I didn't like it, but I can accept it in a one-time partnership.
The problem I have is that they tell you that you bid wrong and they leave after the bidding. One of them even in the middle of a tournement.
This is for me the biggest problem of BBO (..of on-line bridge). People insult you and leave the table after the slightest bid that they don't like. It never happened to me in f2f bridge that somebody left before the end of the evening.
I'm not sure that everybody on BBO did read the rules (I'm sure not everybody follows them).

I happen to have no problem at all with the 1♠ overcall opposite a passed partner, so on board 1, you bid fine. I would also have no problem with a timid pass or an aggressive 2♠ at this vulnerability.

On the second hand, I assume you are EAST from your statement. I actually prefer "dbl" to 4♥ as negative. These "takeout doubles" can always be left in, so your parnter with five spades to AKxxx will have no problem with pass, and with five hearts to AKxxx will have no problem bidding on the the laydown slam. But dbl after 2NT opening as negative is rare agreement (more common after 1NT opening). But as I have said many times here, for me, all my non-conventional doubles until before we have found a fit are for takeout. The higher the level, the more likely partner will leave in.

Now, as for your "parnters" they really need to take a course not only in good manners, but also in bidding theory.... how in the world can they be uspet with you when they themselves bid so horribly. I find it fitting that your bids were fine, and it was your rude partner's who made the horrible bids.

Ben