[Bbradley62]

If North can't go 2/1 with this passed hand, will he ever?

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[lycier]

I think natural bidding approach can't solve every problem.
for this hand,we need some decent gadgets,for example,Bart convention.

[steve2005]

 lycier, on 2014-August-03, 16:47, said:

I think natural bidding approach can't solve every problem.
for this hand,we need some decent gadgets,for example,Bart convention.

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand so it's not using natural bidding.

so 2N makes some sense over a 2♣ rebid.

but if opener has KQx♥ or similar you missed ♥ fit

would like better ♥ but bidding 2♥ rebidding a NF 3♦ over 2♠ and going for 3N over a 2N or 3♣ rebid sounds not too bad. maybe not with this hand but with a ♥ honor for sure

[Bbradley62]

I prefer the natural bidding as Steve describes... But it does seem that there is currently no such thing as a hand that would bid 2H over 1S as a passed hand, unless possibly a maximum pass with 3♠ and 5♥.

[1eyedjack]

With Txxxx, if partner can't rebid 2H over 1N I would give up on the suit, unless partner later patterns out with 3H to show 3 + extras.

Yes I will miss the occasional good 2H spot. More frequently I reckon to avoid a bad 2H spot.

[Bbradley62]

Regardless of the merits of this particular hand, I'm still hoping that someone with access to GIB code can answer my basic question: If North holds something more like x, AJxxx, Kxxxx, Qx, will he bid 2♥ over 1♠ as a passed hand?

[Antrax]

 steve2005, on 2014-August-03, 19:31, said:

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand

It doesn't. The description claims it does, but it passes the PH 1NT with balanced minimums frequently.

[Bbradley62]

 Antrax, on 2014-August-04, 08:50, said:

 steve2005, on 2014-August-03, 19:31, said:

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand...

It doesn't. The description claims it does, but it passes the PH 1NT with balanced minimums frequently.

GIB uses semi-forcing style here; he still might have a three-card limit raise (which would be a direct 3M bid in a more natural SAYC system) and opener is expected to continue bidding with anything except a balanced minimum.

[steve2005]

 Bbradley62, on 2014-August-04, 09:25, said:

GIB uses semi-forcing style here; he still might have a three-card limit raise (which would be a direct 3M bid in a more natural SAYC system) and opener is expected to continue bidding with anything except a balanced minimum.

yes I remember sometime it passes 1N. but look at those ♦ surely there worth a nf 2/1? if the ♥ arn't. even if it breaks Kantar's rule of always bidding the higher suit regardless of quality lol.

certainly beats opp running off 5 clubs on some 1N hands