This sounds like a refusal to me 1D-1N-2N-3D
#1
Posted 2014-July-27, 22:07
1♦ - 1NT
2NT - 3♦
I expected the bot to have a terribly weak hand, that believed 3D was a safer contract than 2NT was.
The published description of 3♦ was "5+D, 3-H, 3-S, 6-10 HCP, 7+ total points", which seemed oddly fuzzy. Either this bid is game-forcing or it is to play; 6-10 is not a range that makes much sense for it.
The bot came down with
♠A6
♥K6
♦J753
♣J8643
And I was the only table not in 3NT, of course. (I was also the only person who chose 1D-then-2NT on my side of the table - but I have no complaint's with the 17-18 HCP semibalanced explanation of the 2NT bid, jsut with the bot's reply to it.)
#2
Posted 2014-July-27, 22:38
With a weak "retreat" from 2N you would presumably have responded 3D to 1D rather than 1N on the previous round.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#3
Posted 2014-July-27, 23:08
Siegmund, on 2014-July-27, 22:07, said:
1♦ - 1NT
2NT - 3♦
I expected the bot to have a terribly weak hand, that believed 3D was a safer contract than 2NT was.
The published description of 3♦ was "5+D, 3-H, 3-S, 6-10 HCP, 7+ total points", which seemed oddly fuzzy. Either this bid is game-forcing or it is to play; 6-10 is not a range that makes much sense for it.
The bot came down with
♠A6
♥K6
♦J753
♣J8643
And I was the only table not in 3NT, of course. (I was also the only person who chose 1D-then-2NT on my side of the table - but I have no complaint's with the 17-18 HCP semibalanced explanation of the 2NT bid, jsut with the bot's reply to it.)
I play 3♦ (or any other bid, but particularly 3♦) as forcing here. Bidding anything forces to 3NT.
I should say that not all my partners do. But, and I rarely say this or act like this, they are wrong. The only way to get out below 3NT is to pass 2NT. In particular a weak, distributional hand with ♦ (such as you hypothesize) will make an initial response of 3♦. With GIB's hand, I would likely call 3♣.
#4
Posted 2014-July-27, 23:18
#7
Posted 2014-July-28, 10:00
#8
Posted 2014-July-28, 10:27
Funny... I went looking for an un-cut-off explanation of 2N but couldn't find one, because this (perfectly reasonable) South was the only one of the 7 humans who didn't open 1N
But it does appear that North plays 3♦ as forcing, as everyone has said.
#9
Posted 2014-July-28, 10:39
However If any suit bid is forcing then you can up it to 98%+, because I see very little profit to be had in bidding 3-minor as a forcing bid.
If I had scraped up a 1N response with a 6 or 7 card Club suit and a borderline pass of 1D, partner raises to 2N, and I have no interest in 3N, I might as well play in a suit contract that has a prayer of making, especially at IMP. So I think that there is a strong case for having 3C non-forcing, even if it does not apply to 3D, and the only reason that the same argument does not apply to 3D is the overlap with a direct raise or jump raise as the case may be.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#10
Posted 2014-July-28, 10:50
1eyedjack, on 2014-July-27, 22:38, said:
With a weak "retreat" from 2N you would presumably have responded 3D to 1D rather than 1N on the previous round.
Presumably, the specific definition is to show five diamonds to offer a choice of 3N or 5D as the final contract.
#11
Posted 2014-July-28, 11:20
Bbradley62, on 2014-July-28, 10:50, said:
Presumably so, and yet 5D just ain't gonna happen. Both partners have already offered NT as a strain. After which is anyone really going to try to land on that pinhead?
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#12
Posted 2014-July-28, 12:48
#13
Posted 2014-July-28, 13:04
I agree that on the hand that you give, there are hands where 5D is better than 3N. I also think that investigating that possibility is (a) likely to take you beyond 3N on hands where 3N ends up right, and (b) likely to give info to oppo that will allow them to defeat 3N where blasting it would let it through on a significant number of hands.
Open to arguments, mind.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#14
Posted 2014-July-28, 16:11
1eyedjack, on 2014-July-28, 13:04, said:
I agree that on the hand that you give, there are hands where 5D is better than 3N. I also think that investigating that possibility is (a) likely to take you beyond 3N on hands where 3N ends up right, and (b) likely to give info to oppo that will allow them to defeat 3N where blasting it would let it through on a significant number of hands.
Open to arguments, mind.
Agree, but would add 5♦ being the right spot against the odds and really against the odds assuming this is matchpoints.
#15
Posted 2014-July-28, 18:25
If 3D IS going to be forcing, it does still need some kind of definition added to it, so I know what the difference between 3D,3H,3S,3N by responder is (without discussion I would take 3M as "I have this major stopped but am afraid of the other" - not sure I'd ever make that bid in real life for fear of helping the opps find the right lead though.)
I can live with not having non-GF escapes (though I WOULD like 1D-1N-2N-3C to be to play), since GIB isn't nearly as fond of cute 4-HCP responses as most humans.