[flytoox]

Scoring: IMP

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Playing 3N, opps are silent in the auction. Opening lead is C4, East took the CA and return CT. Plan your play. IN particular, which suit you plan to establish?

Thanks in advance.

HJ

[ochinko]

Diamonds are worthless unless I catch Kx in W so I play for 3 tricks in spades, and 4 in hearts. I jump with ♣K, then play ♥K which I expect to be ducked by E.

Since W is dangerous, I now continue with ♠J. If W covers, I'll have to finesse the 10 in E. If E wins, there is no winning card from him assuming that W started with 5 clubs.

[TimG]

flytoox, on Feb 17 2005, 07:44 PM, said:

Opening lead is C4, East took the CA and return CT.

I'm curious about the spot lead. The three and two are missing. Does west lead 3rd best from a five card suit? Or, is this some sort of attitude lead and west chose to lead middle from something like Q7432 rather than a more encouraging two?

If it's attitude, I expect west not to have the ace of hearts, low seems right then so that east will continue the suit if east wins the first side trick. If east has the Ace of Hearts and Ace of Clubs, that likely means the King of Diamonds is onside (since east failed to open the bidding).

Doesn't this mean that: win ♣K, ♥K (ducked, I suppose), diamond finesse, establish hearts, produces nine tricks (1♣, 2♦, 4♥, 2♠) when hearts break? If hearts don't break, you can cash the ♦A to see if there is a doubleton king before looking to spades for the ninth trick.

[flytoox]

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 02:39 PM, said:

flytoox, on Feb 17 2005, 07:44 PM, said:

Opening lead is C4, East took the CA and return CT.

I'm curious about the spot lead. The three and two are missing. Does west lead 3rd best from a five card suit? Or, is this some sort of attitude lead and west chose to lead middle from something like Q7432 rather than a more encouraging two?

If it's attitude, I expect west not to have the ace of hearts, low seems right then so that east will continue the suit if east wins the first side trick. If east has the Ace of Hearts and Ace of Clubs, that likely means the King of Diamonds is onside (since east failed to open the bidding).

Doesn't this mean that: win ♣K, ♥K (ducked, I suppose), diamond finesse, establish hearts, produces nine tricks (1♣, 2♦, 4♥, 2♠) when hearts break? If hearts don't break, you can cash the ♦A to see if there is a doubleton king before looking to spades for the ninth trick.

C4 is 4th from 5. I corrected it. Thanks for pointing out this.

[TimG]

OK, I win the ♣K and play the ♥K. Yes, it is possible that I can win 8 more tricks in diamonds and spades without ever touching hearts, but that takes some luck, while east will have the ♥A about 50% of the time. If east does have the ♥A, the diamond finesse becomes odds on (else east would have opened the bidding). So, I play on hearts, then the diamond finesse and fall back on spades for the 9th trick if hearts don't behave.

I'm going to guess that this is the line taken at the table and it failed, west holding ♦Kx all along.

Tim

[pclayton]

RHO can have AT2 or AT of clubs; I can't tell which. If clubs are 4-3, I don't see how it can be right to win the 2nd trick. If clubs are 5-2, it doesn't matter. Duck T2 and win the continuation.

If I play on diamonds, I'm doomed if LHO has either the K♦ or A♥.

If I play on hearts, I can live if LHO has the ♥A and RHO has the ♦K. However, this only gets me to 8 tricks (♣, 2♠'s, 4♥, ♦), so I still need to guess to take the ♦ or ♠ hook. However, If LHO has the ♥A, I don't mind losing the lead to RHO, although the entries are getting tangled.

I'm really starting to hate this hand!

So, ♥K, ducked; spade to the Ace, Q♥ losing to the Ace. A spade back forces me to guess which hook to take. I'd want to be at the table, but this seems like the most promising start.

[ochinko]

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

OK, I win the ♣K and play the ♥K.  Yes, it is possible that I can win 8 more tricks in diamonds and spades without ever touching hearts, but that takes some luck, while east will have the ♥A about 50% of the time.  If east does have the ♥A, the diamond finesse becomes odds on (else east would have opened the bidding).  So, I play on hearts, then the diamond finesse and fall back on spades for the 9th trick if hearts don't behave.

I'm going to guess that this is the line taken at the table and it failed, west holding ♦Kx all along.

Tim

♥A is by necessity in E, otherwise he will be able to return a heart after an unsuccessful diamond finesse, or even if it is successful W must hold only one other diamond in order for us to make the contract.

Imagine what happens when ♠J is played, and E wins with the queen. The only safe exit for him is to take his ♥A and return a heart. Now I cash all the remaining hearts, ♠AK, and my last spade. This wins if spades are 3:3, if ♠10 is doubleton in either opponent, or if E started with ♠QTxx because in the last case he's thrown in hand, and is left with nothing but diamonds, where I get my last trick.

Petko

[shanbari]

i won't touch spade at all,
and i like TIMG's original playing line, win HK, then DQ finesse.
if DQ lost to RHO, rho can only return D/S, which i would win at dummy to continue setup hearts, eventually score, 2S, 4H, 2D, 1C.

or if heart doesn't splits 43, i still have chance to play 4 diamond tricks.

btw, duck CK at first tricks seems normal play to me, watch rho's discard could be helpful, i don't need third club to endplay LHO.


SHAN

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Feb 18 2005, 03:47 PM, said:

RHO can have AT2 or AT of clubs; I can't tell which.

Wouldn't RHO most likely play the 10 on the first round if he had AT2?

Arend

[TimG]

ochinko, on Feb 18 2005, 11:08 AM, said:

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

OK, I win the ♣K and play the ♥K.  Yes, it is possible that I can win 8 more tricks in diamonds and spades without ever touching hearts, but that takes some luck, while east will have the ♥A about 50% of the time.  If east does have the ♥A, the diamond finesse becomes odds on (else east would have opened the bidding).  So, I play on hearts, then the diamond finesse and fall back on spades for the 9th trick if hearts don't behave.

I'm going to guess that this is the line taken at the table and it failed, west holding ♦Kx all along.

Tim

♥A is by necessity in E, otherwise he will be able to return a heart after an unsuccessful diamond finesse, or even if it is successful W must hold only one other diamond in order for us to make the contract.

Imagine what happens when ♠J is played, and E wins with the queen. The only safe exit for him is to take his ♥A and return a heart. Now I cash all the remaining hearts, ♠AK, and my last spade. This wins if spades are 3:3, if ♠10 is doubleton in either opponent, or if E started with ♠QTxx because in the last case he's thrown in hand, and is left with nothing but diamonds, where I get my last trick.

Petko

East doesn't have to hold the ♥A if clubs are 4-3. If you take ♣K at trick two and then play ♥K and ♠J, east could win the ♠Q, cash the ♥A, and then play a club.

I suppose I also fail when clubs are 4-3, LHO ducks the ♥A, and the diamond hook is off.

Your line may be best if you wait until trick three to win the ♣K and find out that clubs are, indeed, 5-2.

But, as someone pointed out, RHO should play the T from ATx, so maybe you don't have to wait to find out.

When RHO has the ♠Q and five hearts, he can get out with a spade when in with the ♠Q. And, you come to only 3 spades, 3 hearts, 1 diamond and 1 club. If you've won the second club you can endplay RHO into leading a diamond (if you win the 3rd club, the defense will already have five tricks).

Yes, I guess your line is better.

Tim