[pclayton]

Hannie, on Feb 17 2005, 11:44 AM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 17 2005, 01:41 AM, said:

I've written up an article on this (hey - didnt' I post something about this a few months ago?  )

I've focused on the 2 level rebids by Opener. The 'next (new) suit (NNS)' works well with a 2♣ or 2♦ rebid. After a 2♥ rebid (1♥ - 1♠ - 2♥), 2N works best. You can use this 'puppet' to get out in 3 of a minor too. The forcing 3 level bids are great too. The responses to the NNS get a little tricky, but it can function close to the 2♣ call in xyz.

Even though I'm ready to submit this to BW, frankly, I'm not 100% convinced about the idea. I've been watching for hands that apply and sometimes the auctions get a little bulky.

Right, I forgot about that, I think that this is the thread you mean:

http://forums.bridge...wtopic=5829&hl=

There is another thread where you announce the coming of the above thread .

Though your idea is slightly different than mine, the idea is similar: 4th suit forcing often gives awkward sequences, and this can be improved. Has the BW accepted your article yet? I would be interested in seeing a complete write-up.

No I havent sent it in to BW yet.

But they accepted another article of mine (I'm not saying which; you'll see it soon).

[whereagles]

I only read the 1st post. The idea seems interesting. Unfortunately it will never be popular unless you can come up with a convincing mnemonic to remember the cases/exceptions

[pclayton]

Hannie, on Feb 17 2005, 11:44 AM, said:

pclayton, on Feb 17 2005, 01:41 AM, said:

I've written up an article on this (hey - didnt' I post something about this a few months ago?  )

I've focused on the 2 level rebids by Opener. The 'next (new) suit (NNS)' works well with a 2♣ or 2♦ rebid. After a 2♥ rebid (1♥ - 1♠ - 2♥), 2N works best. You can use this 'puppet' to get out in 3 of a minor too. The forcing 3 level bids are great too. The responses to the NNS get a little tricky, but it can function close to the 2♣ call in xyz.

Even though I'm ready to submit this to BW, frankly, I'm not 100% convinced about the idea. I've been watching for hands that apply and sometimes the auctions get a little bulky.

Right, I forgot about that, I think that this is the thread you mean:

http://forums.bridge...wtopic=5829&hl=

There is another thread where you announce the coming of the above thread .

Though your idea is slightly different than mine, the idea is similar: 4th suit forcing often gives awkward sequences, and this can be improved. Has the BW accepted your article yet? I would be interested in seeing a complete write-up.

The latest write up is similar to yours. I've deleted the 2nd suit (1♣ - 1♦ - 2♣ - 2♠ as artificial; its largely natural.

I'm still looking at some intelligent follow-ups; I'll look at your responses again.

[han]

whereagles, on Feb 18 2005, 03:39 AM, said:

I only read the 1st post. The idea seems interesting. Unfortunately it will never be popular unless you can come up with a convincing mnemonic to remember the cases/exceptions

Hahaha, that's not my problem, I'll let pclayton worry about that!

How about IBBNS for a catchy mnemonic, Invite By Bidding New Suit!

[inquiry]

I have been looking at this new suit invitational to help with an occassional acward situation that my partner and I get into because we play 1m-1M-2NT as forcing major raise by opener, and 1m-1M-3m as good suit plus 3 card support for partners major.

This means we had to create a bid for 17-19 balanced or a really good one suited hand without support for partners major (so we can't jump to 3m). We do this by making new minor by opener forcing. The invite fourth suit allows responder to wait and let opener clarify his hand. Opener's hand will fall into three categories.

1) weakish two suiter (not good enough for jump rebid in second minor initially)
2) Balanced or semi-balanced 17-19 with or without 3 card support
3) Good one suiter in the first bid minor.

So the rebid of the major to invite is nice... you get to game easily if partner has any of the real 17-19 point hands, and still can investigate game if he has a weakish minor two suiter, especially based upon fits. I have added the following rules, which are slightly different from those suggested by hannie's

1) The cheapest rebid in minor by responder is weak and non-forcing (so all these bids ae passable...

• 1D-1S-2C-2D (2d is cheapest minor bid by responder)
  
• 1D-1H-2C-2D
  
• 1C-1S-2D-3C (3C is cheapest minor bid by responder
  
• 1C-1H-2D-3C

2) 2NT rebid by responder is always either Game force in non-cheapest minor or game invite in cheapest minor.

• 1D-(1S or 1H)-2C-2NT = game force in diamond or game invite in clubs
  
• 1C-(1S or 1H)-2D-2NT = game froce in clubs or game invite in diamonds

3) Responders direct raise of non-cheapest minor to the 3 level is game invite (fits with iteem 1 and 2 above)

• 1C-(1H/1S)-2D-3D = game invite with diamonds, to force bid 2NT
  
• 1D-(1H/1S)-2C-3C

4) To sign off in the non-cheapest minor, bid the 4th MAJOR FORCE, and then rebid the minor or pass it.. thus

• 1D-1S-2C-2H-any-3C = signoff in clubs (can pass if opener rebids 3C)
  
• 1C-!S-2D-2H-any-3D = signoff in diamonds
  
• Of course.. 1D-1S-2C-2D is sign off in diamonds if given this opportunity

5) Responder rebids 2H to signoff in his major...

• 1D-1H-2C-2H
  
• 1C-1H-2D-2H
  
• 1D-1S-2C-2H --> can be weak in spades, pass openers 2♠ rebid
  
• 1C-1S-2D-2H --> Can be weak in spades, pass openers 2♠ rebid

6) Major at three level is forcing by responder

7) The NEW MAJOR forcing at two level by responder,

• if hearts can be signoff in other major (spades) and non-cheapest minor, so that 1D-1S-2C-2H can be sign off in clubs, but 1C-1S-2D-2H can be signoff in diamonds.. cheapest minor signoff is by direct bid of that suit
  
• if it is spades, only weak holding is non-cheapest minor (so 1C-1H-2D-2S can be signoff in diamonds, or invite in clubs. 1D-1H-2C-2S can be signoff only in clubs

This schedule makes it possible for responder to easily show game signoff, game invites and game force while seeking more info from partner. The key is the following rules, restated, as it relates to minor suits...

1) Cheapest minor rebid by responder is always weak, signoff type bid
2) Simple Non-cheapest minor rebid by responder is natural and invitational
3) 2NT rebid is invite in cheapest minor or game force in the non-cheapest minor
4) NEW MAJOR FORCING is can be weak with non-cheapest minor, or invite for notrump or other major.

The biggest advantage to this structure for the way I bid, is that it allows what was fourth suit forcing to be made on a number of hands including those much weaker than normal in case I catch partner with a 17+ hand, without committing us to get too high. That is, it lets me safely find out more about opener's hand, without committing to anything. Over this fourth suit thing, opener can show his hand easily.

Ben