[Hanoi5]

---

Do you agree with this sequence? Are the bids right or acceptable? Which call would you change?

[the hog]

I would not bid 2D on this trash. I would pass.
So the bidding would go
1H (P) 1S (P)
2H all pass

[aguahombre]

I vote "acceptable", from E/W standpoint because of the 2D overcall. I disagree with Mr. Hog's contention about an unimpeded auction, however. With no interference, E has a clear 3H rebid, IMO.

At the point of the question mark in the OP diagram, if West does anything other than Pass, East must have bid 2H very out of tempo.

[inquiry]

What would a redouble of 2♦x by north mean? If that is something like reverse rosenkrantz or "diamond raise not strong enough to bid 3♦, then the pass of 2♦x is a mistake. Otherwise, North's bidding is fine. When EW stopped in 2♥, the double with support in diamonds might not be everyone's choice. There is a dogma somewhere about support with support, but I like the double you can always pull clubs or notrump back to diamonds.

But I really, really hate the 2♦ overcall on a five card suit headed by the JACK-TEN. I would never, ever do that (don't let Richard tell you about my jump overcall on a four card diamond suit). The choices are a 1♠ overcall, an off shape double, or something many of us don't use enough, it is called a Pass.

On the current auction, West has to pass over 2♠ and East, with seven hearts will find the 3♥ bid, which should end the auction. With seven relatively certain tricks (six hearts and the ♦A) in his own hand, some would have tried 3♥ in response to the negative double, good thing he didn't or he would be playing in 4♥, which will suffer three club losers and the ♠A (South would lead Ace of king followed by the other == which ever order signals "doubleton") and north will give a spade suit preference on the second round of clubs.

[Hanoi5]

Double post

[silvr bull]

I would double 1♥, with the partnership agreement that if I then correct 2♣ to 2♦ I show longer ♦s, but not extra values.

[Hanoi5]

Unfortunately, the real hand was:

---

[mike777]

hate 2d
much prefer x


will pass 2c by pard if not playing equal level conversion= but I still x

[inquiry]

Hanoi5, on 2014-May-08, 21:57, said:

Unfortunately, the real hand was:

---

The bidding is still wrong. South should not overcall 2♦ (See above). West with a void in hearts and four diamonds should not make a negative double (what is partner going to rebid? Surely hearts). And North opposite a 2♦ vulnerable overcall is surely going to take a bid and get into trouble.

[aguahombre]

Wow. Do you have evidence to go along with the suspicions? I really hate the coincidences of North first not raising to 3D and then South Passing the Double of 2H; but we need something more to go Bobby Wolff on them.

[rmnka447]

In the first set of hands shown, my choices would be:

- East's 1 ♥ is OK,

- I'd never bid 2 ♦ nor double with the South hand. I'd pass hoping to back in later on,

- Over the 2 ♦ bid, I don't think West has quite enough for a 2 level negative double,

- After the negative double, I think North has a clear 3 ♦ raise. It precludes E/W from finding a ♠ fit at the 2 level, and,

- Bidding 2 ♥ seems a bit wimpy to me. If opener held ♠ x ♥ AQJ109x ♦ AQx ♣ Axx, a 3 ♥ bid would be easy. Here opener has an equivalent trick taking player in ♥s, so I'd be inclined to bid 3 ♥ with the hand and insist on playing ♥s.

My ideal auction wouid be:

1 ♥ (P) 1 ♠ (P)
3 ♥ (P) 4 ♥

If South gets off to a ♣ lead, then 4 ♥ goes down. Any other lead lets East pitch a loser on the ♦ K.

On the second (true) set of hands shown, my choices would be:

- East's hand is either a 1 ♥ or 2 ♥ bid. Even though it has 2 QTs, it's 11 disjointed points, so I'd opt for 2 ♥,

- As before, I'd never bid 2 ♦ nor double with the South hand,

- After a 2 ♦ overcall, I'd never negative double with the West hand. It has length with the ♦ bidder and a void in partner's 5+ card suit. The hand has misfit written all over it. Pass seems best,

- Over the negative double, this time pass seems right. With advancer's heart holding and an absence of a ♥ raise from West, both South and West seem to be short in ♥s. So the hand may not play well in ♦,

- With the negative double, 2 ♥ is pretty much forced on East after the negative double, and,

- I don't know anyone who'd treat the double of 2 ♥ as penalty.


My ideal auction would be:

2 ♥ (P) P (P)

[Zelandakh]

As others have written, the 2♦ overcall and pass of the double are not the best. I disagree with the hog's auction though, in as much as it seems clear for either North or South to double 2♥ on the second round. If you want to take action on hands like this South it is simpler if playing ELC or Raptor.

[whereagles]

The 2♦ did exactly what it was supposed to do: it wrecked havoc. Overcalls of type

1x 2(x-1)

are usually very troublesome and you can vero often get away with murder when you make them. This was one such case.

If something, responder on that void heart might exercise caution and pass 2♦.

[Hanoi5]

North took a long time to double 2♥ (though she usually takes a lot of time to certain bids and to many plays). South claims that double is for penalties.

[Cyberyeti]

On the first hand the 2♥ rebid is absurd, 3♥ is obvious. Also S's 2♦ overcall would reap an unfortunate reward if W's hand had one of E's diamond honours and the auction finished 2N-P-3N, the diamond lead would be somewhat suboptimal. That said I would overcall with the S hand, but whether it was 1♠/2♦ might depend on my mood.

[kenrexford]

I agree with the psychological ease of the auction with ELC, but I would not ELC the hand, personally. Passing 2♣ with AK tight seems fine.

As a related aside, the potential use of an ELC seems to mean that a 2♦ opening tends to show shorter spades on average. It might even nearly deny four spades. This nuance seems somewhat relevant.

[Vampyr]

Hanoi5, on 2014-May-09, 07:16, said:

North took a long time to double 2♥ (thohugh she usually takes a lot of time to certain bids and to many plays). South claims that double is for penalties.

The fact that North often breaks tempo does not mean that there is no (or less) UI when she does.

[Hanoi5]

Vampyr, on 2014-May-09, 11:11, said:

The fact that North often breaks tempo does not mean that there is no (or less) UI when she does.

Is this totally correct? Let's say I take 25 seconds for EVERY call and play (robotic style), can the opps call the Director when I take the usual 25 seconds? I suppose not. However the fact is that this North takes her time in most difficult situations and of course you might be able to distinguish between 25 normal and 30 abnormal. Should the Director take that into consiferation? Should the Director ALWAYS find North guilty because of the usual style? When can North be given the benefit of the doubt?

[the hog]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-09, 07:48, said:

On the first hand the 2♥ rebid is absurd, 3♥ is obvious. Also S's 2♦ overcall would reap an unfortunate reward if W's hand had one of E's diamond honours and the auction finished 2N-P-3N, the diamond lead would be somewhat suboptimal. That said I would overcall with the S hand, but whether it was 1♠/2♦ might depend on my mood.

I don't think that anyone who overcalls on that hand is qualified to make any further comments on the bidding.

[Cyberyeti]

the hog, on 2014-May-09, 17:54, said:

I don't think that anyone who overcalls on that hand is qualified to make any further comments on the bidding.

Depends on your agreements, 1♠ is in system and quite normal on a 4 card suit with a decent hand for us, I'd just like the ♠10 as well, as whereagles says 2♦ over 1♥ is a major spanner in the works, and we are much less disciplined with 2♦ over 1♥ than we are with 2♣.