[eagles123]

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MP scoring

again teacher recommended something that I was really uncomfortable with, interested in opinions.

Thanks,

Eagles

[Hanoi5]

At these colours I'd rather try for a game of our own instead of trying to get them down 4 at the 2-level. Unless that double shows both Majors I think I'm fine.

[broze]

Double looks totally normal at these colours.

[the_dude]

I pass without much hesitation, matchpoints makes the decision easier. There's no guarantee we have game, particularly on a misfit-ish hand. Your hand is not well-suited for 3NT - the most likely game - I'll take the sure 300-500. Besides the auction isn't over, if partner reopens with something other than X we will have to opportunity to get excited.

[MrAce]

Pass, despite the colors I love the spots of my clubs, easy lead.

[mikeh]

At mps, frequency considerations argue for the pass, hoping to convert a reopening double (and hoping they can't scramble to 2♥), since we rate to have partscore values more often than game values.

We are always beating 2♣ x'd more than the value of any partscore, and so passing rates to win more often than does doubling now.

If partner passes it out, then he has a bad hand with unexpected club length, arguing further that we can't make even a high-scoring partscore, and maybe our +100 or +150 will be good enough.

Finally, if he takes a bid (double and pass are both calls, not bids), we can try for 3N...we aren't finding spades unless he bids them).

At imps, the size of our game score is a factor, but we rate to be +500 on most hands on which we have a play for game, so even then we are losing only 3 imps or so, and meanwhile we rate to win big on a lot of layouts, especially where game fails.

So I pass and hope to be able to lead the club J against 2♣ x'd.

[FrancesHinden]

I don't mind either double or pass.
If I double, I'll have to bid 2NT over partner's 2-level rebid (unless he bids spades, of course). Given I'm doing that, I might as well just pass 2C and play for a penalty.

[whereagles]

Pass seems better. Dbl might get messy later.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Since it is not very often that Responder can be 4-4 in the Majors, you can confidently Neg-DBL using the following ( not widely used ) treatment:
2H = 4+ cards
2S = 5+ cards
DBL = 4 cards ♠ and says "nada about ♥" .

[mycroft]

I'm uncomfortable. Partner's most likely hand is a strong NT, and it's going to be hard to catch up with the 600s. Of course, partner's other likely hand is ♦AKJxxx and a card; if it's not a heart card, we're either +600 or -3 or 400 depending on how the diamonds behave.

So, at MPs, how many auctions are going to go 1NT-p to you (likely a few, if they play variable NT)? How many auctions are going to go 1NT-(2♣ nat)? If a lot (as it is with me), then I pretty much have to try for my game, and hope I guess right. At IMPs, yeah, I think I'm happy taking +500 back; I think I'd be even happier to take +300 back, because it's quite possible partners went plus as well.

[Wackojack]

Good arguments for both pass and double. If you are going to pass do not hesitate.

[mikeh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-April-25, 16:44, said:

Since it is not very often that Responder can be 4-4 in the Majors, you can confidently Neg-DBL using the following ( not widely used ) treatment:
2H = 4+ cards
2S = 5+ cards
DBL = 4 cards ♠ and says "nada about ♥" .

To say 'not widely used' is a massive underbid.

Leaving aside other considerations, how many hcp does one need to bid 2♥ to show 4+ hearts?

How many hcp to bid 2♠?

This method seems to combine all of the bad features of normal negative doubles and negative free bids without offering much by way of compensation.

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2014-April-25, 06:23, said:

MP scoring

again teacher recommended something that I was really uncomfortable with, interested in opinions.

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Wackojack, on 2014-April-25, 17:08, said:

Good arguments for both pass and double. If you are going to pass do not hesitate.

IMO Pass = 10, 2N = 9, Double = 8, heeding Wackojack's advice to pass in tempo. Presumably you are still playing 4-card majors with majors first, making it less likely that a 1♦ opener has a 4 card major.

[eagles123]

again the teacher wins support! He was adamant that pass was right and I was so reluctant - I just saw P with a 4351 15 count or whatever where pass was a disaster. But your arguments have convinced me

thanks folks,

Eagles

[whereagles]

Even if pard has 15 or so, it will be hard to setup your suits due to bad breaks. You'd need to find pard with 16-17 to have a good game on, and with that hand and short clubs, he will certainly act.

[Jinksy]

Agree with others' pass, but there's no way I'm doing it in tempo.

[Jinksy]

eagles123, on 2014-April-26, 09:21, said:

I just saw P with a 4351 15 count or whatever where pass was a disaster.

thanks folks,

Eagles

That's a textbook reopening double.

[FrancesHinden]

Jinksy, on 2014-April-28, 10:29, said:

That's a textbook reopening double.

Yes, that's his point. He's worried about +300/+500 against his +620 in 4S.

[mcphee]

Pass, this does not qualify for double, plus I expect to become a happy camper when partner re-opens double.

[Jinksy]

FrancesHinden, on 2014-April-28, 14:30, said:

Yes, that's his point. He's worried about +300/+500 against his +620 in 4S.

Ah, oops.