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Stayman gets doubled[

#1 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2014-March-08, 00:34

QJx
Qxxx
KJ9xx
x

MP, Unfavorable, partner deals and opens 2NT (20-21). Not playing Puppet, so 3S may be 4 or 5.

2NT - pass - 3C - X
3S - pass - ?

1) Do you choose 3NT or 4S (or something else?)

2) Do you have an agreement what club holding partner requires to Pass or XX? What would you assume with a competent partner but no previous discussion?
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2014-March-08, 05:47

Isn't it normally "pass denies a club stop, then XX repeats the stayman; bidding shows a club stop"? (Though only expert-level pairs play this - never encountered it even at county level)

With that agreement I would bid 3NT. Without it, 4D. (If partner takes me seriously and starts slamming in diamonds, it might well make anyway)

To XX 3C would require a very good club suit, say 5 cards with 3 of top 5.

ahydra
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2014-March-08, 07:10

View Postahydra, on 2014-March-08, 05:47, said:

Isn't it normally "pass denies a club stop, then XX repeats the stayman; bidding shows a club stop"? (Though only expert-level pairs play this - never encountered it even at county level)

With that agreement I would bid 3NT. Without it, 4D. (If partner takes me seriously and starts slamming in diamonds, it might well make anyway)

To XX 3C would require a very good club suit, say 5 cards with 3 of top 5.

ahydra


i doubt any experts would prevent themselves playing 3cxx. there are similar schemes with pass showing a club stop and 3d being restayman, which obviously allows you to play 3cxx when opener shows a stop.
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#4 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2014-March-08, 08:42

Over 1NT I've heard of showing any club stop... over 2NT, both partner and I felt two solid stoppers were needed to be doing that. (At the table, opener's club holding was AJ83, and whether this was a pass or not was a topic of dinner conversation. I gather for you two it would be.)

Lot of difference between 400, 420, and 430 on this board.
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#5 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2014-March-09, 08:04

It is not important to be able to show a willingness to play
in 3c x or xx in this type of auction. The main scheme should be
geared to worrying about the best place to play. The easiest
way to go would be:
xx = 1 stop allows 3d restayman or pass
pass = at least 2 stops allows 3d restayman (no slam interest)
or xx (restayman and slam interest) or pass
3d/h/s = 0 stops and the appropriate stayman response.

This gives up on the ultra rare circumstance when the 3c bidder
has psyched and we the 2n bidder is willing to play 3c with a
typically balanced hand. We still leave in the possibility of 3c
x or xx if partner is willing to play with what may be an
unbalanced hand and we can play 3cx w/o the club bidder ever
being able to correct a "psyche". It also eliminates any doubt
about the number of club stop(s) we have when they have to make
further decisions.

If you are allowing for 5 card majors in your 2n bids it
would serve your partnership well to learn puppet (it is simple).
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#6 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2014-March-09, 13:07

I can't imagine 3nt is the right place to play at matchpoints, because I can't imagine we take as many tricks in NT as in spades. I'm not worried about a tap in the 4+ spade hand because we should be fine in the red suits. We have around 30 HCP and a 4-3 fit. We're fine.

If partner happens to have 5 spades, so much the better. Heck, in that case, the only question is whether 6S is on.

Be sure to thank your LHO for the warning about clubs, btw.

NB: This decision is much closer at IMPs, I think.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-March-12, 03:13

Without a club stopper it might be better to transfer just in case responder has a positional club stopper. Or that we can scare them from leading a club because responder (declarer) might have a positional stopper.

But maybe it goes to far playing transfer by a 2NT opener even if one fancies them by a 1NT opener.

In the recent final of the Dutch teams championship, one of the pairs had a disaster when opener passed over the double (without mentioning his major suit holdings) which was raised preemptively to 4. They didn't find their double major suit fit but defended 4X.
When did pass become a 4-letter word? --- WinstonM
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#8 User is offline   r_prah 

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Posted 2014-March-14, 09:27

Here is the structure that I play over the double:

3/3/3 promise a stopper
Pass denies a stopper or wants to penalize; forces a redouble. Opener can pass the redouble, or bid 3, 3 or 3 denying a stopper.
Rdbl shows mild interest in penalizing, can play in 3XX opposing xxx in clubs or Hx in clubs, but not opposite a small singleton or a doubleton.
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