[pbleighton]

I'm just learning Precision. My book (Precision Today - Berkowitz/Stanley) recommends transfer positives. Questions for those who've played them:
1) In general, are they a good idea? Does the right-siding more than compensate for the loss of bidding space?
2) The book recommends playing Beta acceptance after the responder's transfer, asking for controls (A=2, K=1). A post in another thread said this was an outdated method.
a) Do you agree that Beta shouldn't be played?
Do transfer positives work well without them?

[the hog]

"2) The book recommends playing Beta acceptance after the responder's transfer, asking for controls (A=2, K=1). A post in another thread said this was an outdated method.  
a) Do you agree that Beta shouldn't be played? "

This was probably one of my posts. What I actually said was that most top players have given up the Greek alphabet of asking bids. I can think of only 1 pair amongst top players - a German women's pair - who plays alpha beta gamma etc. The reason for this is that
it is far more important to show shape and distribution.

However a couple of points re the methods in "Precision Today". I havent read the book, so am talking in generalitites. Transfer responses do not waste space, they save space. I would suspect that the acceptance of the transfer shows a fit and a better than minimum C opener. If this is the case, an immediate control asking bid has merit because you can judge whether or not you are in a slam zone.

Have a look at what raising the shown suit to the 3 level shows. Again I haven't read the book, but I would suggest this should show a min C opener and 4 card support in a flat hand. Do they play splinters over the t/f resps? Again these should probably be some 4441 min C opener. It is hard to comment on one aspect of the system without looking at the whole. You will find there are also inferences to be made by not accepting the transfer and then later supporting the shown suit.

[keylime]

Transfer (xfer) positives are an integral part of Key Lime Precision Version 10. From experience this is what normally occurs:

1. Xfer positives allow a degree of fit/misfit at opener's first rebid. This is a tremendous advantage to know exactly what you'll be playing in, which afford more descriptive cuebids, slam tries, etc.

2. Rarely does the xfer positive hit opener's real hand. When this happens, it seems that there's a misfit and it alerts the partnership to convert into NT.

3. When a full degree of fit (8 card plus) is found, you can make a slam try with RKC Kickback/ace asking bids at very low levels, thus determining exactly what the combined assets are at the 2 and 3 levels. From personal experience, this demoralizes the opponents in team of four matches the most -- having complete control of the auction is an absolute asset of the nth degree.

4. Lastly, xfer positives are space saving techniques that allow responder, who is really the captain of the auction and not opener, to have an more equal say in what contract the team should play in.

I kindly refer you to my website (http://www.geocities...eylimeprecision) where I list two schemes of xfer positives that has worked at all levels of play.

[Rado]

Transfer responses (not only after precicion) are one of the modern trends in the bidding. Many world top pairs (Bocchi-Duboin, Buratti-Lanzarotti, some Swedish, USA and others) are using transfer schemes after their 1C, 1D and others openings. Transfers (and retransfers)give more possibilities for full description of the hands and also help for placing the contract from the right hand more often than standart methods. Same are to be used in competition where are still many undiscovered areas for their implementation

Best regards, Rado

[mishovnbg]

Transfers at same level of bidding really lose space. Solution is to play inverted at same level and transfers on upper levels. In case of precision responses this mean to invert 1HE and 1SP and play transfers at 2 and more level. Example - author uncle Bill :
1HE: 8+HCP, 5+SP or 12+HCP, 4+SP
1SP: 8+HCP, 5+HE or 12+HCP, 4+HE
1NT: 12+HCP, bal
2CL: 8-11HCP without 4 major
2DI: 8-11HCP, 4HE, transfer
2HE: 8-11HCP, 4SP, transfer
2SP: 12+HCP, 5+CL-4+DI or 6+CL
2NT: 12+HCP, 5+CL-5+DI
3CL: 12+HCP, 6+DI
... with DI
        Yours friend Misho

[volcano]

I'm not sure if transfer positives are what my partner and I play or not. I've only read one precision book (Precision Bridge by Eric Jannersten) and we have made some significant modifications to what is suggested therein.

Our positive responses to 1C are as follows:

1H= 8+ HCP, 5+ spades
1S= 8-10 HCP, balanced
1NT= 8+ HCP, 5+ clubs
2C= 8+ HCP, 5+ diamonds
2D= 8+ HCP, 5+ hearts
2NT=11-13 HCP balanced
3NT=14-16 HCP balanced

If partner completes the transfer, it confirms the fit and asks responder's trump quality. This always saves space in the case where partner has support (except the 2D showing hearts bid), while sometimes forcing you a little higher when you do not have a fit with partner's suit.

We only have beta come up when it goes 1C - p - 1H - p - 1NT. (1C - p - 1S - p - 1NT is asking responder to bid his cheapest 4 card suit up the line.) I think the other greek letter questions are more useful, so don't mind losing this usage of beta.

[mishovnbg]

Playing transfers u described u have 2 main disadvantages:
1. 1NT transfer for 5+CL lead to often playing of 3NT from wrong hand.
2. 2DI transfer for 5+HE lose bidding space and is against main idea of prec. U are even in worse position then simple natural system.

[zhujm]

2D transfer to Hearts really wast too much space.
1NT transfer to 2C leads to the wrong decalear sometimes, but It saves space very well, pd usually can bid 2C as relay.

My suggestion on transfer responses are:
1h=nat or 8-13hcp, bal
1s=nat or 14-15hcp, bal
1nt=5+c;
2c=5+d;
2d=two minors, 54+;
2h=3 suites, 8-11 or 15+;
2s=3 suits, 12-14hcp;
2nt/3c/3d/3h=semisolid c/d/h/s, extra points posssible;
3s/3nt=solid major/minor, no extra points.

of course , you can exchange 1h/1s meaning as 1h=s or bal, 1s=h or bal.

[mishovnbg]

Opening 1CL with any 16(15)+hcp lose tempo to show distribution. If you use 2 way distribution responses that cannot be easy discover ( like alternative 2 suiters) will be easy for opp to preempt same bids.
Misho