[dickiegera]

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WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?

[trevahound]

Is there any reason it wouldn't be a splinter? Helping opener sign off with KJTx(x) of clubs, and to get excited with xxx(x) of clubs? Anything else would (absent prior agreement) greatly surprise me.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

dickiegera, on 2014-February-27, 15:26, said:

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WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?

♣ Splinter for ♥ as trump; slam try .

[Cyberyeti]

The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623.

[trevahound]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-27, 17:32, said:

The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623.

I would think with hearts and clubs concentrations you'd continue with 3♣ (a game try until proven otherwise); then when you convert it to a slam try you'll have shown those concentrations. I'm not great with "what's standard" questions, but I thought it was fairly standard that without shortness but with a slam try you bid where you live, and your game try becomes a slam try with subsequent calls.

[MrAce]

dickiegera, on 2014-February-27, 15:26, said:

WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?

It is a crystal clear GERBER !

[nige1]

dickiegera, on 2014-February-27, 15:26, said:

WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?

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Depends on agreement but IMO, probably...

• Not natural ♣.
• Not a cue-bid (You could mark-time with 3♣ and reveal slam aspirations later).
• Gerber -- RKC Gerber? I quite like Mr Ace's suggestion - even if he doesn't
• Splinter - Trevahound's suggestion is the most likely without discussion.
• Exclusion.

[dickiegera]

nige1, on 2014-February-27, 19:41, said:

Depends on agreement but IMO, probably...

• Not natural ♣.
• Not a cue-bid (You could mark-time with 3♣ and reveal slam aspirations later).
• Gerber -- Roman key-card Gerber? I quite like Mr Ace's suggestion - even if he doesn't
• Splinter - Trevahound's suggestion is the most likely without discussion.
• Exclusion.

I have always played that one does not splinter in partners suit

and

Gerber is a jump over a NT bid.

Thank you

[nige1]

dickiegera, on 2014-February-27, 20:15, said:

I have always played that one does not splinter in partners suit and
Gerber is a jump over a NT bid. Thank you

OK, Fair enough But you did ask what 4♣ might mean
After ♥ have been supported, a 4♣ splinter seems a reasonable agreement -- especially playing 2/1 -- when partner's 1♣ may have shown his worst suit
e.g. ♠ A Q x ♥ K Q x x ♦ Q x x ♣ x x x

[Cyberyeti]

trevahound, on 2014-February-27, 18:21, said:

I would think with hearts and clubs concentrations you'd continue with 3♣ (a game try until proven otherwise); then when you convert it to a slam try you'll have shown those concentrations. I'm not great with "what's standard" questions, but I thought it was fairly standard that without shortness but with a slam try you bid where you live, and your game try becomes a slam try with subsequent calls.

What's standard is not to cue a shortage in partner's suit, and that was the only other meaning I could think of. 3♣ is not even forcing for everybody round here, although I guess it is in the US (it makes a lot more sense for it to be forcing opposite a short club, here it just says I want to play in the 4-4 or better club fit rather than the potential 4-3 heart fit for some people).

[aguahombre]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-February-27, 17:32, said:

The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623.

This "Picture bid" makes a lot more sense than splintering partner's suit. With the above example, sure, we could bid 3 forcing clubs and then show slam interest later, but I don't see how that will accomplish anything. This hand needs to describe and let partner make the moves.

[jmcilkley]

I would hope noone seriously thinks it would be Gerber! Nor can I see the point of a splinter bid in partner's suit (although the 1c opening might not show clubs, I guess. 3c might well be a trial bid asking for help in clubs for game (quite possible if playing 5 card majors) I would take it as a cue bid in clubs with slam interest and denying first round control of spades.

dickiegera, on 2014-February-27, 15:26, said:

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WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?

[aguahombre]

jmcilkley, on 2014-February-28, 07:57, said:

I would hope noone seriously thinks it would be Gerber!

There might be someone, but not Timo. Gerber is a frequent subject of humor on these fora... deservedly --- even some who actually use Gerber in certain situations don't advertise on BBF.

And many of us do not use the emoticons with each attempt at humor.

[Lord Molyb]

If undiscussed with a strong partner, probably the picture bid.
If undiscussed with a weaker partner, splinter for sure.

[Lord Molyb]

posting straight from BBO makes me double-post

[granguru]

There are 3 cases not considered up to now, and first is that it is a slam try without ♦ control. You want to bid just under the step you want to hear and not other option to partner.

The second is that partnership uses 6 RKCB. Then after both suit have been immediately supported 4NT asks 6 KCB, including both rounded Qs
to check with certainty if there is a grand slam or just 12 tricks.
A typical hand ♠Ax ♥Qxxxx ♦Axx ♣KQx vs some ♥AKxx ♣Axxxx and Kx xx or ♠xxx ♦x.

Surely, without any agreement, the most common idea between non experts is that it is a non-standard SPL bid. Gerber is used always after a NT bid by partner so it is not to be considered.

Among top experts, specially those who use 4-level minor suit agreements is directly RKCB(6). Answers are 14, 30 (or inverted) 25, 2+1Q, 2+2Q. If first or second step answer, then first no-suit asks number of Qs.

Kindly

[Fluffy]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-February-28, 15:51, said:

If undiscussed with a strong partner, probably the picture bid.
If undiscussed with a weaker partner, splinter for sure.

I gotta be the weaker partner

[Trump Echo]

If my regular partner bid this, I would see it as a cue bid. With the bid, my partner is telling me we have the strength for a slam in ♥ if I have max values.

If my partner simply bid 3 ♣ or 3 ♥, inviting game in ♥, and I followed with 4 ♥, I would have missed the opportunity to show my ♦ Ace below game.

[arepo24]

I agree with Aguahombre. To me it is a picture bid -- nothing more, nothing less.

[PhilKing]

granguru, on 2014-February-28, 22:33, said:

Among top experts, specially those who use 4-level minor suit agreements is directly RKCB(6). Answers are 14, 30 (or inverted) 25, 2+1Q, 2+2Q. If first or second step answer, then first no-suit asks number of Qs.

Kindly

That's a pretty bold claim. Do you have any proof?

FWIW I have evidence from "the database" to the contrary. Lauria/Versace, Meckstroth/Rodwell and Helgemo/Helness, for example, play the sequence as a splinter, but they are all fish.