[awm]

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What do your various bids mean? In particular 4NT and 5♣ may be interesting.

Assuming a good partner but no real discussion of this sort of auction, what do you do now?

[Zelandakh]

My guess:

4♥ = good diamond raise with heart control
4♠ = doubleton spade
4NT = to play
5♣ = good diamond raise without heart control (seems more important than showing clubs)
5♦ = to play

That probably means we should bid 5♣ now but "no real discussion" makes that a bad idea.

[akhare]

A stall of 4♥ seems best here, but both 6♦ / 5♦ may be right.

Hopefully, pard won't take it as first round ♥ control and drive us too high, but if it doesn't work out, preempts work .

5♣ is a possibility, but what if pard thinks it shows a 1=4=1=7 or 1=3=2=7 hand?

[gszes]

There seems to be little to no case for having a hand like
1417 when we can cover that hand with 4n (where 2425 is our most
likely minimum distribution and having 4h is highly unlikely).
If I was willing to play 3n (rather than bid 4c) playing 4n can
hardly be horrific.

5c

Seems to be the correct bid. P has ignored our (ambitious) 3n
(a highly coveted playing spot) and gone to 4d. Since p would
also have liked to play 3n their hand should be sufficiently
distributional and/or strong to bypass 3n. Even though all of
our offense is located in clubs, we are compelled to share our
dia fit with partner and let them know our hand is not hopeless
for slam purposes. Denying a heart control along the way is gravy.

[MrAce]

If 5♣ shows a ♦ fit, obviously it is the correct bid here. I am not sure if i would bid it with confidence w/o knowing how pd would take it though. It could be taken natural even if it may not be the best use for this bid. If i talk myself into this danger then i probably would bid 5♦ now.

[ggwhiz]

Nobody I know pulls 3nt to 4♦ without high ambitions and a heart control.

All the intelligent options like 4♥ (then 4♠, now what?) or 5♣ (which means what?) with no real discussion are dangerous.

I'm blasting 6♦ which I expect to be on a pointed suit finesse at worst, preparing my apology and will discuss the other avenues later.

[PhilKing]

5♦. With a grand total of zero points in my partner's suits, I will discourage any slam ambition.

Cue bidding, even if understood, is far too aggressive IMO.

[Mbodell]

I think 4nt should be a suggestion to play, and 5♣ should not be a suggestion to play. I bid that.

[nige1]

awm, on 2014-February-13, 10:03, said:

What do your various bids mean? In particular 4NT and 5♣ may be interesting.

Assuming a good partner but no real discussion of this sort of auction, what do you do now?

---

IMO 5♦ = 10, 4♠ = 9, 4♥ = 8, 4NT = 7, 5♣ = 6. Had you held say
♠ x ♥ J T x x ♦ x ♣ A K Q J x x x
then you might choose 5♣ (rather than 4NT).

[aguahombre]

nige1, on 2014-February-13, 16:24, said:

had you held say [/size]
♠ x ♥ J T x x ♦ x ♣ A K Q J x x x
then you might choose 5♣ (rather than 4NT).

This is my concern as well. The 3NT response was our side's last shot at 3NT and might have been bid on a variety of hands. Over 4D, we now have 4H as a LT available with Diamond support and some fillers in the pointed suits... after which Partner can stall to find out if we had Clubs controlled. We also had 4NT available to suggest our game-force values were real in the heart suit and further try to play NT.

By simply bidding 5D, here, Partner can look at her great Spades and Diamonds (if she has them) and work out all by herself that my G.F. values must be all in clubs. If she doesn't have the supercontrol of her two suits, we don't want to be in slam anyway.

[mike777]

5d This must deny a h control so pard can figure out where my points are.

4nt is to play.

Not sure what 5c is but my guess would be club control rather than long clubs but....

[cherdano]

PhilKing, on 2014-February-13, 14:20, said:

5♦. With a grand total of zero points in my partner's suits, I will discourage any slam ambition.

Cue bidding, even if understood, is far too aggressive IMO.

Agree very strongly, I don't understand anyone else in this thread.

[rhm]

MrAce, on 2014-February-13, 13:56, said:

If 5♣ shows a ♦ fit, obviously it is the correct bid here. I am not sure if i would bid it with confidence w/o knowing how pd would take it though. It could be taken natural even if it may not be the best use for this bid. If i talk myself into this danger then i probably would bid 5♦ now.

If you have a diamond fit, there are alternatives like raising to various levels and control bids in hearts. You may have to use your judgment, but this is okay in my mind.
If you have a long self sufficient, not necessarily solid club suit what are your choices now, e.g. ♠x, ♥KTx ♦xx ♣AQJTxxx ?
A good principle is that in undiscussed sequences, when a bid could be sensibly interpreted as natural, it is natural.
I consider everything except ♥ bids and 5NT as natural here.

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

assuming partner has a heart shortness, which is already assuming something, we need partner to have 5/6 from ♠AK, ♦AKQ ♥A, certainly partner doesn't rate to have that many. So 5♦ looks appropriate.

The best chance for slam comes when partner is void in hearts, but look at the vulnerability, LHO passed 3NT with 3 hearts?, won't happen very often.

[awm]

Holding this hand in a team match, I bid 5♦ and we played there. Partner held ♠AKJT9 ♥x ♦AKQxx ♣xx and we missed the excellent slam (losing IMPs when the other table's opener leapt to 6♦ directly over 3NT).

[aguahombre]

awm, on 2014-February-15, 23:30, said:

Holding this hand in a team match, I bid 5♦ and we played there. Partner held ♠AKJT9 ♥x ♦AKQxx ♣xx and we missed the excellent slam (losing IMPs when the other table's opener leapt to 6♦ directly over 3NT).

And, when you didn't bid 4H or 4NT over 4D, did Partner think about why and come to the conclusion your 3NT was a psych?

[PhilKing]

aguahombre, on 2014-February-16, 04:59, said:

And, when you didn't bid 4H or 4NT over 4D, did Partner think about why and come to the conclusion your 3NT was a psych?

Yep - pard dropped the ball. Any hand missing 2 aces (eg ♠Qx ♥KQTx ♦Jxxx ♣KJx or ♠xx ♥KQTx ♦Jxxx ♣KQJ) would surely have signed off in 4♠ or 4NT.