[ewj]

So they never come up but I have a question about 2C responses...So I'm playing this thing where 2NT=♥ positive, 3♣ ditto for ♣ (and 3♦ asks for a 4 card major with opener), 3M=4M, 5+♦ with the responses as suggested on this thread (http://www.bridgebas...-continuations/)

Anyway...it has been suggested that these auctions could be forcing to 4NT. I am pretty skeptical about this given opener could just have a horrible misfit and presumably you'd want to make a 3♣ positive on KQJxxx and out, or at least AQJxxx and out. I see that at least one person does as mentioned here (http://www.bridgebas...oceed-with-this) but maybe Frances wouldn't make a positive on these? Or maybe I'm being too negative and/or 4nt is a doddle opposite those.

So my questions are I guess, (assuming you would make a positive on what I mentioned - and please say if you wouldn't) does anyone play such positives as forcing to 4NT? What about if opener makes a 3♦ enquiry over 3♣ I guess you'd be more likely to want to force to 4NT but still, perhaps opener is 4441 or something - can't really blame him/her for looking for a major suit fit, so I personally think 3NT is very passable. But I just want to see what others think.

Also, does anyone have nice methods after 2C-3S? We currently play (as suggested here) that 4C/H are forcing and natural, 4d/s are keycard and indeed 3nt is non forcing. But I was thinking that it might be nice to have either a 6 card keycard method, or at least some way to enquire about the major later. Obviously I could make something up but was hoping someone had a tried and trusted method here.

Sorry for the quite rambly post and thanks in advance to anyone who posts anything productive !

[gnasher]

I prefer to play a positive as forcing to 4NT, with exceptions for obviously limited sequences like 2♣-2♠;3♠-4♠. That includes three-level positives, whatever they mean.

If it begins 2♣-3♠ showing a positive with diamonds and spades, I think I'm more likely to have a forcing 4♥ bid than a signoff in hearts, and I'd hate to have to jump to 5♥ just to make it forcing.

Even if you don't want new suits to be forcing, you should certainly play fit auctions like 2♣-3♠;4♠ as forcing.

I wouldn't make a positive on ♣KQJxxx and nothing else. I would do with AQJxxx. I wouldn't be that concerned about reaching 4NT or 5M with this, but I don't have enough data to judge.

[jallerton]

ewj, on 2014-February-09, 19:25, said:

Also, does anyone have nice methods after 2C-3S? We currently play (as suggested here) that 4C/H are forcing and natural, 4d/s are keycard and indeed 3nt is non forcing. But I was thinking that it might be nice to have either a 6 card keycard method, or at least some way to enquire about the major later. Obviously I could make something up but was hoping someone had a tried and trusted method here.

This has already been answered by PhilKing on the thread you quote. It is (or should be) a very low frequency auction and there are more important things to worry about than how to fit in 6-ace RKCB in an auction where you've just randomly pre-empted yourself. Just bid 4♦/♠ to agree the relevant suit and ask about high cards in the other suit on the next round if that's what you want to know.

I can't imagine that Frances would make a positive on ♣KQJxxx and out. She also has higher standards tham most for her 2♣ openings. We play a positive as forcing to 4NT (except when a suit has already been agreed at the 3-level - see gnasher's example) as it's a sensible generic agreement which allows us to have a natural auction without worrying too much about what is or is not forcing.

[ewj]

Fair enough, thanks.

[dboxley]

ewj, on 2014-February-09, 19:25, said:

So they never come up but I have a question about 2C responses...So I'm playing this thing where 2NT=♥ positive, 3♣ ditto for ♣ (and 3♦ asks for a 4 card major with opener), 3M=4M, 5+♦ with the responses as suggested on this thread (http://www.bridgebas...-continuations/)

Anyway...it has been suggested that these auctions could be forcing to 4NT. I am pretty skeptical about this given opener could just have a horrible misfit and presumably you'd want to make a 3♣ positive on KQJxxx and out, or at least AQJxxx and out. I see that at least one person does as mentioned here (http://www.bridgebas...oceed-with-this) but maybe Frances wouldn't make a positive on these? Or maybe I'm being too negative and/or 4nt is a doddle opposite those.

So my questions are I guess, (assuming you would make a positive on what I mentioned - and please say if you wouldn't) does anyone play such positives as forcing to 4NT? What about if opener makes a 3♦ enquiry over 3♣ I guess you'd be more likely to want to force to 4NT but still, perhaps opener is 4441 or something - can't really blame him/her for looking for a major suit fit, so I personally think 3NT is very passable. But I just want to see what others think.

Also, does anyone have nice methods after 2C-3S? We currently play (as suggested here) that 4C/H are forcing and natural, 4d/s are keycard and indeed 3nt is non forcing. But I was thinking that it might be nice to have either a 6 card keycard method, or at least some way to enquire about the major later. Obviously I could make something up but was hoping someone had a tried and trusted method here.

Sorry for the quite rambly post and thanks in advance to anyone who posts anything productive !

What?