[kenberg]

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Trying for a heart slam seems ambitious to me but partner could have four clubs, could he not? If so, maybe 6♣? If you feel no slam is viable then strengthen the hand a bit. I am asking whether there is a plausible way to play in 6 of a black suit if we have a 4-4 fit and enough controls in either one, and sign off in 4♥ if partner has three hearts and no four card black suit.

Since I am asking more about systemic agreements than judgment, I will tell you that I passed four hearts, the lead was the king of diamonds and partner, with AJT9xx of diamonds, had no problem making 13 tricks for a mp top. Without the favorable lead, 12 tricks are there but I think it requires luck and double dummy play.

Partner doesn't have four clubs on this deal, but nothing in the auction so far says that he doesn't. I thought a bit about how t explore for this and gave it up. Any ideas? As I say, feel free to strengthen the hand a little if you think that with the given one any slam try is absurd. I am aware that some (not us) play 1NT-3♦ as shortness, but opener with a six card suit then does what?

[monikrazy]

Maybe just bid 5C? I don't think we can discover a 4-4 club fit safely after smolen but we should still be able to make a slam try in hearts without too much risk.

[helene_t]

Partner might have the ♠K to protect against the opening lead so I don't think I will suggest 6♣. Hmmm ... if partner has Kx of spades we probably need ♠A to be onside anyway as there will often be no way of getting rid of the spade loser in a heart slam.

[kenberg]

helene_t, on 2014-January-01, 15:11, said:

Partner might have the ♠K to protect against the opening lead so I don't think I will suggest 6♣. Hmmm ... if partner has Kx of spades we probably need ♠A to be onside anyway as there will often be no way of getting rid of the spade loser in a heart slam.

Yes, in fact partner does have Kx in spades. Meaning that after Stayman this is not so great a club slam. But suppose we upgrade my spade holding to Qxxx. Now maybe 6♣ is more viable. Still, I don't think I can get there, even if partner holds four clubs, by any path that I can see.

[FrancesHinden]

kenberg, on 2014-January-01, 14:27, said:

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Since I am asking more about systemic agreements ....

What does it mean to transfer to hearts then bid spades?
I live in a country where Smolen is virtually unknown. To show 5 hearts and 4 spades and a game force, I bid 2D - 2H - 2S, natural and game forcing. If partner bids 2NT (almost any hand with no major suit fit) I would bid 3C next. I know a lot of people play that sequence as invitational, so after 2D-2H-2S opener with long clubs needs to bid 3C.

[kenberg]

1NT-2♦-2♥-2♠ would be invitational (and 5-4 of course) as we play.

[SteveMoe]

Unfortunately for me, transferring to ♥ then bidding ♠ is only invitational. Smolen is a poor tool to show 5440 shape.
Transferring to ♥ followed by a GF 3♣ rebid might set the stage to show 4=5=0=4. The question is whether partner will believe my 3♠ rebid as a 3rd suit.

[kuhchung]

Maybe sell the hand as 3514? It's probably resulting, but it IS where you live, and it at least conveys the diamond shortness early.

[gszes]

this will not be what you are looking for and at MP (where being in 4h is probably

superior to being in 3n) it is less lilkely useful. given those conditions and the

4 ratty spades (making slam less likely) it may be better if you were willing to

settle for either 3n or the 6 level if p cannot stop diamonds. Starting with stayman

is a fine idea but (once p bids 2d) instead of the obvious smolen call what about

3c. P will naturally look for 3n first and if p cannot indicate a dia stop then slam

becomes more than reasonable in either clubs or hearts. The key is to be willing

to play 3n instead of 4h in order to investigate for slam this way. It is like using

a splinter bid without actually bidding it. Note that this method has a small

gamble attached to it since there is no guarantee you have an 8 card fit but since the worst

case scenario is u will need a 33 trump break I wish all my slams were that good ))))))))))))))))

[Zelandakh]

I can think of the start of a solution but cannot say it is something I have ever played. Say we arrange a structure where 1NT - 2♠ contains all of the club + other suit hands and 1NT - 3♣ is natural and GF/slammy (this is what I like to play so not so hard to imagine!). Now we have freed up 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3♣. The simple step from here is to play this 3♣ rebid as a 3-suiter with 3♦ being an ask. Exactly which 3-suiters you would include will depend on the rest of the structure, in partcular how 1NT - 3M is being played, but perhaps we have space for our 4504 here.

An alternative would be for 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3M to be 3-suiters and now 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3♣ replaces Smolen. Does this help? Well maybe - if 4♣ over 3♥ is patterning out then it might be possible to work it out down the line. Of course if you prefer to use Serious/Frivolous instead then you get locked into hearts. Naturally Opener could show their major here as a transfer and then patterning out would definitely be available but noone playing a strong NT would do this. Instead, a refinement of the above would be to use 3♦ as the 5-4/4-5 ask and 3♣ as showing diamonds.

To be honest though, it is a pretty rare thing to find a major suit fit after showing a major 2-suiter and then want to make a slam try in a minor. Rare enough that it is probably a false economy to devote bidding space to this that might be used for something more common and more useful.

[whereagles]

If you're really into a club or heart slam, you could consider starting it off

1NT 2D
2H 3C

and take it from there.

It's harder to get it to work after the actual auction, but I guess you could try 5♦. If something, pard will find it fishy to hear a 1st round cue looking at A♦ and he'll sign-off in 5♥ while you're still safe. If he goes on, well it might make

[kenberg]

whereagles, on 2014-February-20, 07:22, said:

If you're really into a club or heart slam, you could consider starting it off

1NT 2D
2H 3C

and take it from there.

It's harder to get it to work after the actual auction, but I guess you could try 5♦. If something, pard will find it fishy to hear a 1st round cue looking at A♦ and he'll sign-off in 5♥ while you're still safe. If he goes on, well it might make

Any serious interest in clubs develops only after I find that partner does not have four (or five) spades. So I will start it as 1NT-2♣ definitely. And after partner bids 2♦, a bid of 3♣ would show longer clubs.

Let me change to an auction that did not actually happen: 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♠-3NT. On this auction I expect partner to have three (or, uh oh, two) spades and two hearts. That means eight cards in the minors. It's certainly possible and perhaps likely that this hand belongs in clubs at some level rather than in NT. It's also possible it belongs right where it is, in 3NT. This is a somewhat common situation and my usual policy is to do my best and hope that my kindness to dogs and small children has built up sufficient karma. so that it is right.