[lycier]

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I think that the principle of fast arrival is not good with mini hand after Jacoby 2nt raise.after 4♠,I have to make final guess,it is not a good style.after 4♠,how to do next? cuebid 5♣?

[ahydra]

I'd say the 4S as described by GIB is a good use of the bid. Partner shows his hand quite precisely: a 5332 or thereabouts with 11-14, so may well have eight losers instead of seven, and will not have any shortage. You have a balanced 19, no trick source, and there rates to be at most one ruff in your hand. To drive to slam is pushing it.

Wonder what 5S over 4S is - if a natural slam invite (which North would reject), that looks good. Otherwise I guess you are stuck if you need to know whether partner has 11 HCP or 14. But 4S is certainly an appropriate use of PFA if it shows "balanced minimum".

ahydra

[1eyedjack]

Personally I agree with the OP.
As I read it, the complaint is with the system, not with GIB's usage or abusage thereof. I think probably we all agree that 4♠ is the systemic bid. The question raised is whether it OUGHT to be the systemic bid.

There is no shortage of examples where statndard treatments are sub-optimal, and someone has to make a decision whether GIB system should mirror a fairly sensible, albeit sub-optimal, standard(ish) approach, or whether improvements should be ingrained at a cost of familiarity to the bulk of its users.

Not an easy question to answer.

[Winstonm]

My suggestion is to go ahead and bid slam and then make it. Lacking that option, perhaps bidding a simple 5S is enough.

[georgi]

2NT took enough one-two extra levels when you go for slam. And as of its purpose which asks for shortness, both balanced hands would miss the chance to cuebid anyway.

Could bid 4NT and see 2A, but what happens with hand like:

♠AJxxx
♥xxx
♦AKx
♣xx

Even more controls, but slam would go easily down unless KQ are onside. That still will be hand to rebid 4♠ over 2NT

Currently GIB followons might need some improvement after

1M - 2♣
2M - 3M

or even better

1M - 2♣
2♦ - 2M which keeps plenty levels.

But as the moment GIB would bid only Aces at 1st example, so you won't get information for ♥K or K♦ which would be precious in case with Qxx.

Probably something could be included in next v29.

But usage of 2NT doesn't left many options to opener with 11-21 range.

[lycier]

The biggest problem is 4M to show min. you lose all the bidding room if responder is strong.

[hrothgar]

You're missing the forest for the trees

The response structure used by GIB is the one used by the overwhelming majority of players.
I'm sure that there are any number of better response structures out there, however, none of them enjoy the popularity of the system that is currently implemented.

Feel free to complain, but I'd be surprised if folks are going to implement anything different.

[Bbradley62]

lycier, on 2013-November-29, 18:05, said:

The biggest problem is 4M to show min. you lose all the bidding room if responder is strong.

If you don't want partner to bid 4♠ with a minimum, you can always bid 2♥ instead of 2N and go from there.

[steve2005]

Winstonm, on 2013-November-29, 09:37, said:

My suggestion is to go ahead and bid slam and then make it. Lacking that option, perhaps bidding a simple 5S is enough.

make it? only makes on a ♦ lead. not exactly a great slam as gib has a min hand as advertised.