[the hog]

ggwhiz, on 2013-November-29, 13:58, said:

I do consider this a normal method, perhaps 40-60 in the overcall vs. double camp but still widely played.

So you would not overcall a 1C opening with

xxx
Kxx
AQT98
xx

No, perhaps you wouldn't as I have noted that you are an extremely conservative bidder.
CY has repeatedly said his overcalls are near opening strength +. THAT is not normal. Perhaps it was 20 years ago.
However posting:
"this is what we would do" is of no benefit to anybody if an op asks a question and expects a normal answer.

[kenberg]

I'm coming in late to the discussion but I did choose my 1♦ vote before reading the responses.
I agree with the first response (broze) "keep it simple, 1♦", the Phil King response later, and the more elaborate discussion from mikeh.
Basically my thinking is that the auction won't die here and, after starting with 1♦ and then taking a later opportunity to act, my hand will be fairly clear. If partner bids a (non-forcing) 1M I raise to 2M. I'll raise 1NT to 2NT. I take that back, I raise a 1NT response to 3NT. If it goes (1♣)-1♦-(2♣)-pass-(pass) I will double. Maybe some continuations will make me uncomfortable, but I think I will often be satisfied enough with how this goes further down the line.

Btw, some gremlin keeps highlighting some of what I say in red. This is not my intention..I used to be able to defeat this gremlin by clicking "edit" and then "save changes" but that doesn't seem to be working anymore.Clicking on the highlight of "auction" took me to some stupid site called qui bids.Hah. Maybe I got him dead and buried. For now.

[lycier]

My choice is 1♦ since it is not strong with 16hcp,if double, do you hope your pd bid 1nt with 8hcp+,only?

[ggwhiz]

the hog, on 2013-November-29, 18:33, said:

So you would not overcall a 1C opening with

xxx
Kxx
AQT98
xx

No, perhaps you wouldn't as I have noted that you are an extremely conservative bidder.
CY has repeatedly said his overcalls are near opening strength +. THAT is not normal. Perhaps it was 20 years ago.
However posting:
"this is what we would do" is of no benefit to anybody if an op asks a question and expects a normal answer.

I certainly would overcall. I just think your no benefit deal is way too strong a statement. It's obviously a normal answer to the poster whether I agree with it or not and I appreciate a variety of opinions instead of a 1 or 2 person blog. I chose 1♦ for different reasons but could easily have said that "we play" thing and have in the past.

Substituting "this is my opinion" for "this is what we would do" changes nothing but your perception.

[Vampyr]

gszes, on 2013-November-28, 19:59, said:

a 1d overcall is right on length and falls into a 1 level overcall but this is not the right hand for this action---
for ex what will you do if p bids 1h or 1s are you sure they have 5 is it forcing or not?

With any luck you will have discussed these matters beforehand.

[kenberg]

I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from those who, like me, bid 1♦. What next? Certainly if lho raises clubs and it comes back to me I double. I'll be happy with that, And I first said that if after my 1♦ it goes pass-1NT-pass I would raise to 2NT but then changed my mind and said I would raise to 3. I'm thinking the diamonds may well come in on that auction. I'm not so sure what is best if after 1♦ it goes pass-1M-pass. I want to stipulate that the 1M is non-forcing but at least somewhat constructive. A good five card suit would suffice. It seems that when this happens I am already miles ahead of the doublers since no one forced partner to do anything. But still I have to choose how to continue. Maybe a simple raise is not enough.

My experience with hands such as this is that the 1♦ works just fine. Probably one side or the other will be playing in a part score and 1♦ gets us off to a good start. But game could be there and it's not so clear to me what the right call is if pard trots out a major and the opponents pass.

[ggwhiz]

kenberg, on 2013-November-30, 07:53, said:

What next?

Without 100% conviction, after 1M from partner passed to me I think I'm worth a 2♣ cue.

Then pass 2M and raise 2nt to game are easy enough.

If partner simply prefers 2♦ I'm bidding 2M thinking they have either 3 diamonds and constructive values (no immediate raise) or a doubleton. The hands with 4 in the major should have enough tickets to play well enough on the moyse.

There is a downside in partner playing us for 4 card support and getting us to 4M but 1. it might make 2. many of those would look like a 2nt bid instead of 2♦.

After the 1♣ opening if it goes (all by us)

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - 2♦
2♥ - 2♠

I expect something like 4-4-2-3 with no club stopper and constructive values and have no risk proof answer to that one or some similar that I'm no doubt overlooking.

[Lurpoa]

Zelandakh, on 2013-November-29, 03:25, said:

X and 1♦ are both fine. Even without playing Cyber's form of one level overcall, a 1♦ overcall shows a good hand or a good suit or both. The big advantage of 1♦ to me is that the follow-ups are easy. If partner advances 1M (yes, still forcing for me gszes) we can go 2♣ and then follow up with support. If partner passes and they re-open clubs we can double. The auction after an initial double is also easy if they pass but here we are more likely to run into a barrage and that is where things might get tricky.

Yes, this might be true.

Be The Heart with You, Zel !

[trevahound]

I'm surprised at the dismissal of 1nt. A direct 1nt overcall shows ballpark 15-18, and a balanced hand. Perfect -- that's what I have. If partner has a 5c major of *any strength* we'll likely get to the right strain. We're likely to get to the right game if partner has a little something. LHO will be on lead, and when I'm on lead in this auction normally the last thing I'm leading is a club, so even if we get to 3nt wide open in clubs, they might not be lead, they could split, they could block.

We routinely bid 3nt after an opp preempts without a more sensible call available and without a stopper, relying on opps not to have a solid suit, or it to block, or whatever, yet we're petrified of overcalling a 1♣ opening without a stopper? Seems bizzare and perhaps an artifact of answering in a forum, in writing, rather than at the table. There's nothing wrong with 1♦ or X (pass is perverse), but both are less descriptive than 1nt, and both will make it harder for partner to help with strain and level.

Brian Zaugg

[Fluffy]

I considered doubling with 3361 standard, I will have to rethink my approach. I am pretty sure I won't overcall with 3352 anytime soon though. Only the 16-17 range that makes the overcall+double a good description makes this one close. But with minimum hands its a big mistake to overcall IMO.

[Zelandakh]

kenberg, on 2013-November-29, 20:41, said:

Btw, some gremlin keeps highlighting some of what I say in red.

Run your virus scanner Ken! If you do not have an up-to-date one then go to Trend Micro and run Housecall. If you are computer-savvy, you could also check the process list, BHOs and registry.

kenberg, on 2013-November-30, 07:53, said:

I'm not so sure what is best if after 1♦ it goes pass-1M-pass.

I play 1M as forcing here but I am not sure it makes a big difference. As I wrote before, start with a cue bid and then support partner's major. The auction should develop easily and naturally from there.

[Trinidad]

the hog, on 2013-November-29, 18:33, said:

So you would not overcall a 1C opening with

xxx
Kxx
AQT98
xx

I wouldn't.
- I don't have the decent hand that I am advertising.
- I am not taking away any bidding room.
+ I would direct a diamond lead for my partner.

More minuses then pluses.

Oh, you thought I would pass? Don't be silly. I would bid 2♦.
+ advertises the right strength of my hand.
+ showing a good suit, rather than a good hand.
+ takes away bidding room.
+ directs a lead for my partner.
- partner might think I have six diamonds.

More pluses than minuses.

Rik

[WGF_Flame]

I have 2 important things in my hands
1. diamond suit
2. support for all suits
If i had to show this hand in one bid, i would choose double, but sicne I worth 2 bids, i will start with 1 dimaond and if possible will double later.

Notice that you cant do the opposite, doubling and later bidding diamond will show a strong diamond one suiter. (unless you play something else)

[rmnka447]

I bid 1 ♦.

It pays to consider how the bidding will develop if you have a hand strong enough to possibly take a second competitive bid. Here the obvious choices are double/then bid ♦ later or bid ♦/then double later.

Either might be workable if the opponents remain silent. But if you double, an opponent might make a weak jump shift bid or a preemptive ♣ raise. Then, you'd have to bid 3 ♦ to show your ♦ suit. Bidding 3 ♦ on a AQxxx suit with an unknown level of partner support is pretty risky. In the meantime, partner will be unaware of an opportunity to compete in ♦ because the ♦ suit remains hidden. As other have pointed out, after a double, partner may well compete in a 4 card major suit(s). That introduces some uncertainty about whether to you should compete further on 3 card support.

OTOH, if you overcall 1 ♦, partner will have an opportunity to compete in ♦, if it's right. And if partner introduces a major over your overcall, it will likely be a 5+ card suit. So you'll be more comfortable raising with 3 cards. If the opponents don't raise the level too high, you may still have an opportunity to compete in a major with a double if partner is silent. And when you do double, partner won't expect you to have more than 3 cards in any major because of the overcall. So partner is more likely to make a right decision(s) about what level and what strain to compete in (major versus ♦s).